Will Pickup Truck Offerings Become More Diverse?
Truckmakers have a lot to be encouraged about when looking at current sales data. Even Ford is quite positive about its truck sales, even though it just experienced its first monthly drop near the 10 percent range in several years. Even though Ford recently brought all three of its full-size pickup truck production plants (for the F-150 and Super Duty) fully online it's still lagging in monthly sales. All three plants are running at maximum capacity to meet demand. There's no doubt that as Ford fills the pipeline and fixes a few minor supplier issues, those monthly anomalies will cease.
The sales strength of the pickup segment has several other automakers looking at offering a new pickup to help increase market share and sales. Electric carmaker Tesla is among them; it plans to enter the SUV market later this year with the Tesla Model X and it has expressed interest in offering a pickup.
Tesla CEO Elon Musk noted in 2013 that he wanted to build an all-electric F-150-like vehicle in Texas to fill out his product portfolio. At the time, he said he wanted it built in about five years, which means as early as 2018, just two model years away. Unfortunately, the state of Texas is not making it easy for him to sell his vehicles directly to consumers — something that most states don't allow in order to protect the rights of franchise dealerships. Musk is pushing back, hinting that he might not locate his Tesla pickup truck plant in Texas. Really? At this point, if Musk has not yet decided where to build his production plant it's unlikely that the electric pickup, which we guess will cost between $50,000 and $75,000, will be ready in 2018.
Regardless what year we get it, the Tesla electric pickup would bring high-tech diversity to the segment and offer the potential to improve weight and range issues (especially in cold weather or when towing a trailer). We love the idea of having a huge, lockable storage trunk under the hood (no engine would be required) and still having a full-size bed for cargo. But would enough people spend that kind of money for an electric pickup when fuel prices are still so reasonable, especially when a diesel engine in a half-ton with a moderately size tank will get you a range of 600+ miles between fill-ups?
Two other obvious players ready to offer more options in the pickup marketplace are Ram and Jeep. Both are owned by Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and both have strong leaders. But if Ram wants to get back into the midsize game — something Ram CEO Bob Hegbloom has repeatedly resisted — it's more likely to be done with a global partner that already has a vehicle, production plants and a good understanding of what a truck like this should be. FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne (Hegbloom's boss) is reportedly shopping for a partner to help build global efficiencies to ensure cost savings. So if Ram Truck wanted to beef up its truck portfolio it would make sense to do what the Ram Commercial did with van offerings like the Ram ProMaster and ProMaster City. Both products were based off existing global Fiat Commercial platforms. But don't expect Ram to make something like that happen quickly. At a minimum, it sounds like a three- to five-year process.
The Jeep pickup issue is a little more complicated. Big automakers traditionally have thought that the best way to increase a brand's profits is to expand into markets where their product do not exist rather than making incremental improvements on existing products. That's quite expensive unless you can find a way to share a platform and squeeze more vehicles per hour from a given plant, which is more cost effective. Jeep recently used a global Fiat platform to create the Renegade, specifically designed to target the Chinese market. Anonymous sources have suggested it's possible the Renegade could sell in the hundreds of thousands of units per year. At the other end of the spectrum, Jeep also recently decided to create a Grand Cherokee-based luxury high-end competitor to go up against Land Rover Range Rover and cash in on the growing number of people who are willing to spend $100,000 for an SUV. So where does that leave a Jeep pickup truck? The answer is simple — pretty low on the priority list. The segment just doesn't support the idea of more midsize players, even if they have a clear-cut personality like a Jeep pickup could offer, and especially when FCA already offers Ram pickups.
There's no question that pickup sales are strong — and they are likely to stay strong barring any unforeseen global issues — but don't expect to see many automakers jumping into the midsize or full-size pickup segments. Sure, we'll get the occasional "lifestyle" pickup like the Hyundai Santa Cruz concept. Hyundai has nothing to lose from creating such a pickup. But experiments like that have not done well in the past and aren't likely to in the future unless they can do something big and daring with extra capability, unique powertrains or exceptional problem-solving features.
In a nutshell, if an automaker wants to be popular in this mature and relatively jaded segment, it must be able to offer something nobody else — meaning customers and competitors — has seen before. Whether that's Tesla, Hyundai or Google, we'll just have to wait and see.
Cars.com images by Mark Williams
Comments
Well one of the current news items is that Fiat/Chrysler wants to be bought by the Chinese company, SAIC. A Chinese Ram... .
Get rid of the Chicken Tax, then it will especially if we get the Amorak.
FCA is finalizing contract with Mitsubishi to supply them with 2015 L200 with all mechanical components and FCA will design the rest of it at the end of this month. This is going to eat lot of sales from F series soon and with small 4 cilinder diesel even from other SUV and truck manufacturers.
Sergio knows what he is doing. Ford doesn't have any midsize truck and expensive aluminium one doesn't cut it.
Yes, Ford will do all the work and changes as they have done in the past, and the rest will follow years down the road.
@Nitro
No way RAM will go back to 6 speed , leaf springs and ditch air ride and small diesel.
@Nitro
No way RAM will go back to 6 speed , leaf springs and ditch air ride and small diesel.
Google News this report: FCA Delays a Dozen New Models Including Jeep Wrangler and Ram. Also a lot of mid-size and cross over SUVs won't see the light of day anytime soon. So don't hold your breath for FCA to make more diverse pickups. H/T to Lou for pointing this out.
Fords 6 speed beats the 8 speed Ram bought from some other company. Ford and GM have moved onto 10 speeds. Thanks.
"This is going to eat lot of sales from F series soon and with small 4 cilinder diesel even from other SUV and truck manufacturers."
This is a rather bold assumption to make, but that is all it is an assumption with data backing it.
"No way RAM will go back to 6 speed , leaf springs and ditch air ride and small diesel."
Ram cannot back to something they never left since they still offer both a 6 speed transmission and leaf springs in their models. In fact, if you wanted to be able to tow the most in a 1500 then you would have to get one with a 6 speed since rit is rated to tow more that the 8 speed models. In the Ram 2500/3500/4500/5500 a 6 speed is all that can be has had and I doubt that will change for a while at least in the diesel engines. Ram may be able to go with more gears in the gas engines like the 6.4L Hemi (which desperately needs more gearing to able to tow more than 30 mph), but I doubt it will happen with the diesels. You would have to have a pretty big automatic transmission (bigger than what you would want to put in a pick up) to be able to handle the amount of torque the Cummins or any other HD truck diesel puts out with more than 6 gears.
Ram also still uses leaf springs in their "working" models 3500/4500/5500. There is a reason to this too. One being that leaf springs are not as prone to loose their shape when constantly loaded like coils do. This may be why the coils are only offered on models that probably don't see a load too often or as much. So to say that Ram put 6 speed transmissions and leaf springs behind them is a very false statement.
As far as the topic goes, I see North American pickup truck market as on of the most diverse in the world. We are not limited to small "global" trucks that are slower than a Prius. Nor do we have to pay an outrageous fee to have bigger truck converted like many other market like Australia. We have many more truck offerings and options then those places.
@Robbi - FCA is shopping for a company to merge with. They do not have the capital to update most of their aging platforms. They want to merge with someone that has the R&D strength to do the heavy lifting.
As the story above shows, FCA is going to badge engineer a Mitsubishi pickup. They want that for most everything else.
Another ploy of FCA is to put pressure on those who have major control over GM's purse strings to force a merger. The CEO of GM already declined the offer but Marchionne isn't taking no for an answer.
A merge with GM would most likely signal the end of Ram as we know it. If Ram stayed it would be one more GMT K2XX twin. Most of FCA'a cars would also die. No need for Challenger or Charger with Camaro in the lineup. Same can be said for Viper.
There is a global overcapacity in the auto industry in the range of 25%. Marchionne knows this and also knows that his company isn't "too big to fail".
The big players like GM, Ford, VW, Toyota won't touch FCA as they have nothing to offer to them globally other than debt and outdated products. They would be happy if FCA collapses but not happy to be burdened with FCA.
@Jony - PUTC didn't mention that contentious topic. FTA's with various countries will eventually allow global trucks a shot at the USA market. Another issue is differing emission and safety standards. Some experts say that is comparable to a 25% tariff depending on the point of origin for the product.
@ Jay: You are spot on.
Like I said, no way RAM will go back to 6 speed , leaf springs and ditch air ride and small diesel.
Where I can order that GMs 10 speed installed in ford, small diesel and air ride please?
I really want to do that.
I don't want to wait 2 more years.
Snivelina - funny to hear you comment about the Ecodiesel when a year or so back you were dead set against small diesels.
Ummm...... you might have to wait for a 10 speed or diesel in a Ford or GM but you'll have to wait a lot longer than that before you see an all new Ram design............. unless maybe FCA merges with GM or Renault/Nissan.
Renault/Nissan - that would be hilarious too. Instead of Ram building trucks for Nissan we would see Nissan designing trucks for Ram.
ROTFLMFAO.
@Lou
RAM is still new design, compare to last century ford with leaf springs.
Snivelina - again, tr0ll commentary from you.
@Lou
Only tr0ll in here is you. Reread your comments.
And Alll1 aka Cummins now.
Snivelina - I see why you re-read things since you are ESL.
@Lou
You just confirmed my point.
@Lou
You just confirmed my point.
"Like I said, no way RAM will go back to 6 speed , leaf springs and ditch air ride and small diesel."
Like I said, Ram cannot not "go back" to something they never stop using. Ram still uses 6 speed transmissions (which have the highest tow rating in the 1500) and leaf springs. So are you saying that Ram does not use 6 speed transmissions or leaf springs in any of their trucks?
"Where I can order that GMs 10 speed installed in ford, small diesel and air ride please?"
This is kind of a dumb remark. Every brand has something the other doesn't. I can say this about any truck. Where can I order the twin turbo V6, LED headlights, or 360 camera in a Ram that are in Fords? Where can I order automatically adjustable magnetic shocks or direct injected 6.2L in a Ram that is found in the GMC and Chevy. These are just a few of the many things I can list.
@Alll1 aka Cummins aka tr0ll, you are grasping at straw.
Like I said, no way RAM will go back to 6 speed , leaf springs and ditch air ride and small diesel.
"Like I said, no way RAM will go back to 6 speed , leaf springs and ditch air ride and small diesel."
No gasping here I can asure you. Like I said, Ram cannot not "go back" to something they never stop using. Ram still uses 6 speed transmissions (which have the highest tow rating in the 1500) in ALL of their truck models and leaf springs in their models made to work. So are you saying that Ram does not use 6 speed transmissions or leaf springs in any of their trucks?
@Alll1 aka Tr0ll aka Cummins now
The 6 speed has been used for cheap models to maximize profit and keep entry level most capable RAM inexpensive.
The point is, that RAM has 8 speed , which has been used at models which will never go back to 6 speed. GM-Ford doesn't have 10 speed and will get it about 2 years if ever.
RAM has small diesel Ford doesn't have, but will get it in 2 years.
RAM has Multilink rear coil suspension and Air Ride which Ford will never have. RAM2500 has more payload with coils than Ford F250 with leafs. That's the fact.
How is your ecoboost project going? is it still ditched , because of blown turbos and destroyed catalytic convertor and high pressure direct injectors, because of high sulfur in US gasoline?
Enjoy your RAM 3500.
We need a strong chicken tax, otherwise all pickups in the USA will be Chinese made. All USA pickups will be "designed with pride in the USA" but "Made in PRC" (People's Republic of China). Take care my pickup friends
BTW I own a 2012 Tacoma, made right here in the USA!
"The 6 speed has been used for cheap models to maximize profit and keep entry level most capable RAM inexpensive."
So my Ram 3500 Laramie with a 6 speed and leaf springs with an MSRP of $65,000 is a cheap model? Does that ad that anything below that is an even cheaper model?
"The point is, that RAM has 8 speed , which has been used at models which will never go back to 6 speed. GM-Ford doesn't have 10 speed and will get it about 2 years if ever."
And like I said there are things the other trucks have that Ram does not. I know you only like to focus on what Ram has that the others don't because you don't want to talk about what the others have that Ram don't, but that still does not mean that there are things that Ram does not have. For everything that you name that Ram has, I can name something that the others have that Ram does not so chastising the others for not having something is a bit idiotic. That is my point.
"RAM has small diesel Ford doesn't have"
Ford has a 2.7L Ecoboost that outperforms that diesel loaded and unloaded by a long shot. They also have a 3.5L Ecoboost that blows the doors off the 5.7L Hemi while getting better fuel mileage. Ram does not have that.
"RAM has Multilink rear coil suspension and Air Ride which Ford will never have"
Ram does not have leaf springs in their 1500 which is shame because I think they are better for what I use my truck for. I buy a truck and expect more capabilities and am willing to give up city boy comforts for that capability. If having a truck ride like a car because you can't handle a trucks ride then go nuts, but I don't think it is better.
" RAM2500 has more payload with coils than Ford F250 with leafs. "
Actually no, that is not a fact.
"How is your ecoboost project going?"
Great! I change my here and there on my plans I am still moving forward and the truck runs great. Still love driving that truck and could not be better, thanks for asking. Why don't you come down here and see for yourself one of these days. I will show you some southern hospital-ity.
@Cummins - looks like Snivelina forgot about that 8 speed currently available in the GM trucks. The one that comes with the 6.2. The combo that won PUTC's test.
Interstingly enough, the 5.7 Hemi, Ram 8 speed and air ride touted as "the holy grail" , the "blessed trinity" of truckdom came in 4th. The Ford came ahead of the Ram.
Here is a reminder of what PUTC thought of the Ram, " but where the Ram lost most of its points was in its limited payload, braking numbers and the ride quality of the air suspension when towing or loaded. "
- limited payload
- poor braking numbers
- poor ride quality towing OR loaded.
Sums it up........... if you want a car that looks like a pickup buy a Ram.
Another magazine said the Ram was what BOF cars would of evolved into if they kept on making them.....
Ram 1500 - Crown Victoria replacement.
Oh wait.......Crown Victoria was a Ford.
I am not going to even comment your posts dear tr0lls, because you dance around like worse politician and never answers straight question.
Does ford has 10 speed ?
Does RAM2500 with coils has more payload and more confident drive than F250 with leafs?
Does ford has Small Diesel like RAM?
Does ford has Air ride like RAM?
You talk about ecoboost like something from the future. Let me tell you that direct injection is century old like your leafs and aluminium won't cut it.
The fact is that RAM is growing and ford is going down and ALLL1 ecoboost is still not offroading, because he doesn't know, which turbo and injectors he should put on. At least he has a back up with his RAM3500.
"Does ford has 10 speed ?" Does a Ram have a twin turbo V6?
ÑDoes RAM2500 with coils has more payload and more confident drive than F250 with leafs?" No, it does not have more payload.
"Does ford has Small Diesel like RAM?" Does Ram have a small twin turbo V6 like Ford?
"Does ford has Air ride like RAM?" Does Ram have LED lights and a 360 view camera like Fords.
To the rest of what your wrote....... sorry, I didn't think enough of it to read it.
I know I shouldn't but I'll play this game:
Does ford has 10 speed ?
Don't care....... they will when I'm in the market again.
Does RAM2500 with coils has more payload and more confident drive than F250 with leafs?
Don't care, not in the market for HD's
BUT coil spring 3/4 HD Rams explains why I RARELY ever see a Ram 2500.
Does ford has Small Diesel like RAM?
Ummm.......Yes they do.
Does ford has Air ride like RAM?
Anyone who actually knows or cares about payload knows that air ride 1500's are useless as a pickup.
" but where the Ram lost most of its points was in its limited payload, braking numbers and the ride quality of the air suspension when towing or loaded. "
You must of missed that comment.
This is fun....
I wonder what lame azzed comment Snivelina will come up next.
He must of come from a communist block country. The poor dud sucks up all of the FCA propaganda like a true comrade.
Is ram still in turd place?? Hadn't checked in a while but it sure smells like they are. Just checking.
Here is the thing about ram with a 8 speed.... It needs it cause the hemi and there vm diesel are gutless wonders and the 8 speed helps and could stand to have a few more gears so they might finally get on par with a 2.7 ecoboost or a 5.3 gm. Ram 8 speeds are constantly beat by gm and ford 6 speeds. There has never been a ram that can keep up with a ecoboost or a 6.2 gm. Ram has nothing in the future as a ram 1500 can't perform as well as its competition for truck duty even with 8 speed, with coil springs and with the legendary hemi.... Ram never has and never will perform like its competition. That is why FCA CEO is want to offload them on somebody else while there is still a perceived value in the industry of the ram brand.
Even the 6.4 completely struggled during TFLtruck test when they compared it to an ancient and old 6.0 gm.
Hahahahahahahahahaha.
I agree with Lou BC that the auto industry will consolidate more because of global overcapacity and the expense of developing new products. This is one reason Ford and GM did a joint venture on a new automatic transmission. Government regulations have been in existence for a long time and the automakers have adapted to them and will continue to adapt to them. Globalization has opened up local markets to global competition and eventually the US will have a more open truck market with more competition from global players. Sharing platforms with global products has become the norm for most cars made and now vans. Eventually we will see more global pickups in the US although they could be smaller than the traditional full size half ton but bigger than the current midsize trucks. Who knows for sure but things will change.
Ford - 9.67
RAM +7.6
Nice propaganda. 😝
@nitro you mean ford will follow RAM.
Look at the new f150 interior. Call me crazy but it looks like a RAM. Power locking tailgate RAM and the list goes on.
@Jay,
Mercedes/Daimler is the most profitable Auto Company on the planet, those other Germans VW are rapidly catching up
"Ford - 9.67
RAM +7.6
Nice propaganda."
Nice propaganda yourself. Why didn't you post these numbers as well?
Ford 302,009 trucks sold
Ram 179,384 truck sold
Oh wait, you only like to post info that shows Ram in a positive light and anything negative about it is bashing right?
Let me guess, next you will bring up some fast food sales analogies.
Ford May 2014 F series 68520
Ford May 2015 F series 61870
Nice propaganda.
Ford 61,870
Ram 39,952
Even better propaganda!
@Lou
It was obvious Fiat wanted to get the foothold in USA to sell their products (Daimler Benz was happy to jettison Chrysler).
Marchionne - he will huff and puff eventually he will trick the Saudis or Gulf monarchs (hopefully they are gullible) to buy FCA debt and outdated products.
RAM May 2014 37131
RAM May 2015 39952
Best propaganda.
I would have to disagree. This would be
Ford 302,009 trucks sold
Ram 179,384 truck sold
This is actually what is happening now and not what happened because of previous good or bad numbers. But hey, you can look at whatever you want that makes you feel better. If they is only looking at Ram numbers because he pains you to see the much higher Ford numbers then so be it.
Meeh. That's all you've got? Ford is going down baby.
@ Lou be
Sniveling
@yupp
Svagina
LMFAO !!!
Jeff S - It has been stated that there is a global production over-capacity in the auto industry to the tune of at least 20%.
Consolidation or collapse of smaller and/or weaker players is inevitable. As many have pointed out, government interventions in the USA and Canada and even globally has occurred which has delayed the inevitable.
The GFC of 2008 would of been the natural culling point of weak companies but we all know what happened. GM and Chrysler were saved by intervention.
I believe that GM will regain solid footing but it does appear that since merging into FCA Chrysler/Fiat are in trouble. Chrysler is currently doing well with Jeep and Ram BUT both subsidiaries are on aging platforms.
Marchionne is well aware of a looming industry contracture and he obviously feels that FCA is one of the weak animals to be culled from the herd. GM is still struggling to regain footing and see FCA as a stone around their neck in the mad swim to stay afloat. Ford does not need them and neither does VW or Toyota. Renault/Nissan would be the best fit but the French government control Renault and probably would not see a merger with FCA as beneficial nationalistically.
I suspect an Indian company like Mahindra would buy them to gain access to the USA. They have the money and it is predicted that India and China will move into #1 and #2 spots as financial superpowers pushing USA into 4th place behind the Japanese.
I'd like some diversity from Ford.... like a mid-size and/or a compact truck. They are missing out on a large market of people who don't need or want a full size pick-up. Just released today...
The new 2016 Ford Ranger WildTrak! This is one nice looking and capable truck!!!...
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/11/2015-ford-ranger-wildtrak-pacific-official/
As stated by market research posted over the last week or two... One of the top three vehicles getting traded in for a GM twin is the F-150. I'll ditch my 2002 F-150 Lariat SuperCrew in a year or two for a new mid-size as well. I refuse to buy any brand full size when I'm ready to pull the trigger on my next truck purchase. This is coming from a loyal Ford owner too. Over the last 20 years my wife and I have owned nothing but Ford vehicles (Ranger, Explorer, Freestyle and F-150).
Ford is putting all of their eggs in one basket with the F-150 and there's nothing smart about that. Bring us smaller options. Right now the mid-size truck and sub-compact CUV markets are heating up.... Ford has nothing for the NA market available in either category.
Brian in NC - the statistics on the Colorado/Canyon are interesting. The first sales stats out showed a poor conquest rate. In some respects that makes sense. GM fans will be the early adopters followed by those from other brands wanting a smaller truck.
I was amazed at the difference in interior fit and finish between the Tacoma and the Colorado. Oddly enough my 13 yr old son preferred the rear seat ergonomics of the Tacoma over the Colorado crew. The Colorado appears superior in every other way as well.
Ford may be forced into selling the Ranger in the USA. As you have pointed out, not everyone wants or needs a full sized pickup.
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