Spied: Chinese Midsize With a Small Cummins
It's no secret that the non-full-size pickup truck segment is building steam. The 2016 Toyota Tacoma goes on sale next month, both midsize GM players (the Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon) will sell more than 100,000 vehicles by year's end, Hyundai just gave the green light to a new type of lifestyle midsize player, and some believe there's a huge hole in the entry-level marketplace — underneath the main players — for a less expensive pickup.
Whether that new truck comes from one of the U.S. truckmakers or a Chinese, Indian or South Korean manufacturer, we'll have to wait and see. Our Death Valley, Calif., spy shooters are seeing some pretty interesting vehicles with familiar engine badges running around the lowest place in the U.S. during the heat of the summer. This particular automaker is known for its commercial vehicles, but it also sells a version in Australia with good success at a relatively low starting price. Here's what our shooters told us.
"The desert heat brought us something unique last week, with the appearance of the Foton Terracota testing in Death Valley.
"The Foton Terracota — it's also known as the Tunland in the Australian and South African markets — is built in China for export to several global markets. This Foton pickup is powered by a 2.8-liter Cummins turbo-diesel, which has a massive badge proudly displayed on the truck's front fender.
"Spotting foreign trucks testing on U.S. soil always raises the question as to whether the truck is being considered for the North American market, so we're left to ponder that thought once again. Mahindra tried to set up a deal to tackle the U.S. market with its odd-looking trucks, but that deal went down in flames, and Mahindra is still dealing with the litigation fallout. So, is there room for another upstart to take a shot at U.S. showrooms, especially one that can tout a stout Cummins powerplant? It would likely all come down to price, but just how much could something like the Foton undercut the competition?
"The Foton definitely looks a bit rough, but not nearly as offbeat as the Mahindra, and could serve those looking for affordable function in the face of more appointed, but pricier competitors like the Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon or the latest Tacoma.
"The Foton test truck photographed here was part of a small test parade, with one additional pickup and some larger commercial trucks rounding out the gathering. Both pickups were U.S.-spec left-hand-drive configurations (right-hand-drive Fotons are offered in Australia and South Africa); however, the gauge packages, it must be noted, were still set up in kilometers per hour.
"If we had to guess, it's likely that the Foton pickups were simply being tested by Cummins engineers, to finetune the software on the 2.8-liter diesel engines, with no implications for the American truck market. Still, with midsize trucks getting new attention from automakers and buyers alike — and with Chinese automakers still looking for some point of entry into North American showrooms — seeing something like the Fotons on U.S. soil caught our attention."
KGP Photography images
Comments
Good thing they don't sell this hear, they would sell twice as many as the GM twins.
Maybe, just maybe, since the frontier remodel is stalling, Nissan is teaming up with Foton. To build this in the U.S. and re-badge it. Just speculating.
It's not about the size. It's how you use it.
It's a Foton Tunland. I have read some good articles on them, they are not as bad as the other Chinese manufacturers and are attempting to build attractive and good vehicles.
The Cummins is a 2.8 ISF, also the articles state it a good engine.
The Tunland in a single cab form with a ute back has a bed length of just under 8'.
It is apparently the largest midsizer on offer in Australia.
My neighbor had one and he stated why buy Japanese when you can have a vehicle nearly as good for half the price.
Here you can get a leather, high end dual cab, 4x4 Tunland for around AUD $27 000 or just under USD $20 000. Not bad.
But people are weary of them. It will take time for the better Chinese manufacturers to gain a foot hold due to the not so good manufacturers.
Mahindra part two.
JK,
Nothing like a Mahindra, it is actually better than the previous, Colorados and US Rangers.
I did read that the Tunland was being also being assessed in Australia for future sale in the US.
Even with the Chicken Tax it might be competitive.
We already have a full size version of that in the States--a decent Cummins engine surrounded by a junk pickup.
I think im going to be sick... Get that chinese garbage out of our great country!
@Dav - careful, you may incur the wrath of the angry sheep ;)
: 'Murican! - but what about Wallmart?
@Big Al--I like the pictures of the Foton. I would buy this at 20k with leather interior, 4x4, and dual cab. This appears to be much nicer than a Mahindra. As for Chinese goods I already have a Power Mate mini tiller, edger, and weed machine which all work very well and are about $100 less than comparable brands with Overhead valve engines. Power Mate is sold at Home Depot. Several Chinese truck and suv plants have been looking for plant sites within the US so it is possible that they will bring kits over here and assemble them. Employ US workers and provide more competition.
Perhaps this is whom FCA is looking to merge with to bring a mid-size truck to the U.S. market; plus RAM already has a relationship with Cummins.
I'd say the Chinese would first look to Mexico Jeff.
Or, just import them from China. Remember the 25% chicken tax is on the cost of import, not retail.
"The Foton definitely looks a bit rough, but not nearly as offbeat as the Mahindra"
The author of the above comment is obviously a clueless journalist. He's making comments on something he has not a clue of.
The build quality is probably nearly as good as current US build standards.
The same as the comment from "JK". The Tunland comes with;
Dana axles
Getrag transmission
Borg Warner Tx case
Cummins, of course
Bosch fuel delivery and vehicle electronics (no different than what Ford is currently using)
The interior is modern and well presented. It does need to upgrade some of the connectivity for phones, pads and laptops, etc.
The Cummins pulls very nicely as well. It's power and torque are somewhere between the Hilux 3 litre diesel and the Ranger/BT50 diesel. It is quite torquey down low as well.
What? A little truck with a diesel (a Cummins no less) and a manual transmission? Never happen in the U.S.!
Crash Test it and that will seal the deal, major fail!
@mark49,
They do have automatics. Most people here would be wary as Chinese vehicles do not have high ratings for crash testing.
The Chinese like to shortcut somewhere to cut the prices. The recent devaluation of the Chinese Rimimbi would help.
Overall they are the " 1 Dollar Shop" version of a Pickup.
Oxi
Lives on Chinese food - he can't live without it.
@Big Al--There have been reports that several Chinese truck manufacturers have been looking at land in the US to build a plant. The labor costs would not be as cheap as Mexico but a non union plant particularly in the South would still be doable.
I am assuming that the Indiana plate on the back means that this truck is registered by Cummins. They are based out of there, and I am sure they are doing engine testing. I doubt this truck will make it here, but I am sure this engine will.
Looks like the new Buick pickup truck that will replace the American made Colorado.
GM Still Owes the U.S. Taxpayer $10,000,000,000. on the bailout and now is going to import vehicles into the United States from China.
Boycott China Motors. They need to be go under and stay under.
RAM Guy - Cummins in a Ram could become a thing of the past. The Ecodiesel is a VM Motori engine. Either Iveco or VM Motori has a very similar engine to the Cummins 6.7 found in the Ram.
Cummins is selling the 5.0 to Nissan and is also rumoured to be working with Toyota.
Chicken Tax is not long for this world. It's not very popular in Congress any longer.
The chinese just bought miller motorsports park! maybe they will build there? its the company that owns bolbo with v's
And here I thought the Super Dooty was the ugliest truck. Well I guess it still is in the U.S. Put an ice chest in the bed and it's full.
Lol. The Chinese company probably looked at all the parts they already make for US trucks and decided to cobble together a truck with them. The interior looks like first-gen Colorado's. The electrical bits are probably better than the made-in-Vietnam Delphi garbage in the first-gen Colorados...
This is the Foton Tunland. If you visit Columbus, Indiana there at a couple of them at the Cummins HQ/Engine Plant. It is more likely that they are Cummins Engineers doing some Hot Weather testing instead of the actual Foton Engineers. The Cummins ISF 2.8L TDI is a global (outside of North America) motor.
Maybe there is hope for the Cummins yet. The current ram just falls apart around that great engine. Kinda sad for Cummins to be installed in such junk. Maybe this little truck will give it the justice it needs.
Lou,
VM do manufacture an 4.2 litre inline 6 marine diesel with 280kw and over 750nm of torque. This could easily be adapted for road transport or a Ram HD.
Fiat do have a huge lineup of diesel engines. Even one was co-developed with the inline 6 Cummins currently in use with Ram.
I do think they are used on Fiat and it's subsidiaries tractors and heavy equipment.
Is that a manual in there!!!
That's all it would take for me to take a risk on an otherwise unknown.
Isn't terracotta a construction process using poop? No wait, that's adobe. Perhaps that's what it could be called.
It's pretty comical to read comments about Ram pickups "falling apart around the engine". Fleets around here use Rams. Farmers around here almost exclusively use Rams. My father bought a 2002 Ram 3500 new for his heavy equipment repair business and put over 300,000 miles on it through the snow of winter, rain of spring, and heat of summer. It had NO rust in it and was as solid as day 1 when he sold it. I myself have owned ALL of the brands of trucks and have worked them all and the Rams are the most dependable hands down...with GM dead last.
Some of you guys need to actually experience these trucks before you dog them. Ram makes an excellent product that lasts for years and years.
Whether or not this truck ever makes it to the US the publicity will only help Cummins. There might be more interested in a midsize pickup with a diesel than some think. If Cummins is smart they will drive this truck around the country and let the media know in advance. As for a discussion on Ram, how does that relate to Ram except Cummins engines are an option on Ram trucks? I am more interested in this small diesel and its potential than in fan boy-ism.
WXman - I've seen the opposite.
- I know a guy who gave up on Ram after 2 POS HD's in a row. He tried a Tundra and loved it but needed more capacity. He now uses Chevy HD's.
- My neighbour tried a Ram HD after a Tundra and a Chevy. He was test driving a Tundra yesterday.
- My brother works for a large forest resource company (largest in Canada). They used to buy a mixed bag of trucks including Ram HD and now have only GM HD's and Ford 1/2 ton trucks. He says they did that based on mpg and durability data and their own experience backs it up.
Most 3rd party research companies indicated that GM has the most durable HD's for work or personal use. (Gas and diesel) GM lately has been getting "best" scores for personal use. Ford and GM tend to get 'best' marks for 1/2 ton fleet use.
@lou_bc
I had the same experience as you being around trucks with friends and family owning different brands. GM trucks has the least amount of issues and Ford and Dodge were about the same with expensive repairs regarding HD trucks.
Flashee - if I needed a HD I'd be inclined to go with Chevy. My brother beats his to death. The drivetrains hold up well. The GMT900 bodies look like crap really quickly. The interiors have poor fit and finish but are durable.
Test
I have been reading these post on this forum for a while and have been greatly entertained. WXman comment is very funny. I manage a fleet of over 250 vehicle. We used to go with the lowest bidder and that was Dodge/Ram but that sweet price was soon bitter after the high cost of repairs and service life. Our GM and Ford vehicles easily double the service life of Ram/Dodge products. In fact just this week another one was decommissioned due to high cost of service and now a blown engine (gas). We hado last month. Our company policy now is no more chryler/fiat/ram products anymore. A very large company like the one I work for has to stick with its yearly budget and one GM and Ford vehicles allow us to do that.
@WXman, We've had Chrysler and Ram vehicles, they were all crap, much like your dad's Ram HD.
WXman writes: "He said it handled like crap and he was trying to figure it out." - WXMans father on his 2007 Ram HD
https://www.allpar.com/forums/threads/fca-ram-truck-buy-back.161636/page-7
The power of the internet is a wonderful thing. Be careful of what you post on the internet.
And I bought 2 GM Trucks BRAND NEW 2010 Sierra Crew z71 4x4 and 2011 Silverado Ext. cab 4x4 LS. Both had rust, peeling paint and the Sierra had the dash crack all before 50k miles and 4 years old. My new ram has been flawless since day one. You have no argument just as if I said GM builds junk and plenty of people don;t have problems with them. the Brand bashing on this site is insane!
I agree with Big Al from OZ, fit and finish are on par with Ford, Chevrolet, RAM. My concern is the " shortcuts" taken by the Chinese
The Cummins engines built in China for non Chinese consumption, have a special team from the U.S. and elsewhere to check that the completed engines are what they are supposed to be, no substituted parts
It's pretty comical to read comments about Ram pickups "falling apart around the engine"
Posted by: WXman | Aug 21, 2015 10:58:06 AM
These Ford clowns in here are so full of $#!^ I gotta wear gloves to post. lol
I agree with David J. about the power of the internet. You would have to have your head pretty far up not to see that Ford H.D. have the worst track record of all the H.D.'s especially the Diesel. Diesel engines so defective and flawed they couldn't be fixed. Rolling Recall Ford. Pure defective flaming pile of junk. Ram has the longest lasting Trucks in Canada. Cummins will out last all of them. Ford H.D Sagging and lagging. Ram H.D outsell G.M by a long shot.
HEMI V8 - I don't see anyone stating that the 6.0 or 6.4 were great engines.
The whole assertion that Ram is the longest lasting truck in Canada is the exact assertion GM made with the Chevy. It is based on registration data.
What does JD Power Dependability data say about Ram 1500 or Ram HD?
What does Vincentric data say about Ram 1500 or Ram HD?
What does Consumer Reports Dependability data (NOT ROAD TESTS) say about Ram trucks?
Cummins makes good engines. Anyone on this thread say otherwise?
FCA is faced with a 100 million dollar fine and a buy back program. A while back someone posted that based on volume of vehicles sold Chrysler and its affiliates had the worst recall rates out their.
Say what you want, data indicates that Ram does NOT make the most durable truck.
Currently that title would go to GM (based on anecdotal and statistical evidence).
HEMI V8 - I don't see anyone stating that the 6.0 or 6.4 were great engines.
The whole assertion that Ram is the longest lasting truck in Canada is the exact assertion GM made with the Chevy. It is based on registration data.
What does JD Power Dependability data say about Ram 1500 or Ram HD?
What does Vincentric data say about Ram 1500 or Ram HD?
What does Consumer Reports Dependability data (NOT ROAD TESTS) say about Ram trucks?
Cummins makes good engines. Anyone on this thread say otherwise?
FCA is faced with a 100 million dollar fine and a buy back program. A while back someone posted that based on volume of vehicles sold Chrysler and its affiliates had the worst recall rates out their.
Say what you want, data indicates that Ram does NOT make the most durable truck.
Currently that title would go to GM (based on anecdotal and statistical evidence).
ramfan84 - GMT900's had sh!tty bodies. I agree there. You need to compare trucks from the same generation or year.
No thanks, let them cut their teeth somewhere else. Still I hope Cummins sells a bunch of 2.8L engines.
And I should add, it looks more like a mini pickup versus than a mid sized.
@Robert Ryan--That would be my concern as well is that the Chinese manufacturers take shortcuts in order to meet a lower price point. I think that eventually the Chinese products will be much higher quality. Japanese and South Korean goods at one time were considered cheap and of inferior quality and now they are considered high quality. Eventually the Chinese will be in our auto market but it will start with the Chinese making lower priced vehicles for GM, Chrysler, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, and Honda for the US market. Many of the Japanese and South Korean auto manufacturers started making vehicles for the Big 3 and then established their own brands in the US.
@hemiv8, yes that Cummins will outlast all of them. It will outast all those sorry rams it was put in, that's for sure. Your head is up there pretty far isn't it. FORD outsells your trucks 3 to one. Why are you such a Moron??
@hemiv8, why are you so dumb??
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