how has this site not covered anything about FCA wanting to merge with GM?

Maybe if FCA / Chrysler folds, Ford can get their hands on the Cummins Diesel and offer it in the Superduty. Both Ford and GM would be smart to stay away from FCA. The Chinese will grab it.

China or India. FCA would only drag GM down further after GM has been rebuilding themselves. Ford should stay away from both FCA and GM.

I agree, GM better stay away from that train wreck of a company

Evan, the merger talks were on this site months ago when it was current.

According to what Sergio Marchionne told concerned Chrysler dealers, FCA doesn't want to merge with GM. They are looking to improve efficiency by working together on R&D, rather than spend millions of dollars to achieve the same results. As far as I am aware, the media assumed it was merger talks and just ran with it. Now who knows, maybe they are telling some people one thing, and telling other people another story. I can't see the two companies merging.

Everything I've read says the merger is very unlikely to happen, even though sergio Marchionne really wants it to happen. ANd ford doesn't need or want the cummins in the super duty. Their current 6.7 scorpion diesel is probably the best diesel engine they've ever produced and is very competitive with the cummins.

Evan - PUTC relies on press releases to do the heavy lifting.

FCA is worried about VW in Europe. VW has 25% market share and growing. They want to partner/merge with someone that can help them compete. GM would be a poor choice for assistance in Europe since they suck their too.

Another point is FCA's aging platforms. Jeep is Golden Goose #1 but is getting old. They don't have the cash to upgrade.
Again, I'm not sure how GM can help since they have a ton of SUV's so why duplicate and water down what they have?
GM already went through the "too big, too big to fail" crap.

Cars - FCA has some aging platforms and many are based on Mercedes platforms (same can be said fir SUV's). They don't have the cash to do R&D. But again, why would GM want to dilute it's own badges to help an ailing FCA.

Pickups... This one is a no brainer. One more rebadged and slightly reskinned pickup?
WOW - 3 pickup lines of basically the same truck?

No doubt that GM would rather see FCA go bankrupt and then pick over the bones of anything left over worth buying.

The merger is news again because of this...

August 31, 2015

SERGIO: DO THE MATH
Marchionne puts the squeeze on GM; GM's response: 'Why bail out FCA?'
FCA chief says, 'I can hug you nicely, I can hug you tightly'
Larry P. Vellequette Twitter RSS feed
Email Article

DETROIT -- General Motors has flatly rejected the advances of its crosstown rival, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, but FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne is not going away -- not by a long shot.

Marchionne says he has sweated the details and done the math and discovered there's far too much upside in a merger of FCA and GM to let a deal go undone, or at least unexplored.

In a blunt, two-hour interview in his downtown Detroit office, Marchionne said the numbers come out so good that his board of directors has no choice but to put pressure on GM to begin discussions now.

"It would be unconscionable not to force a partner," he said.

That sounds like a hostile takeover bid is in the works.
"Not hostile," said the FCA chief. "There are varying degrees of hugs. I can hug you nicely, I can hug you tightly, I can hug you like a bear, I can really hug you. Everything starts with physical contact. Then it can degrade, but it starts with physical contact."

GM insiders, speaking on background, question Marchionne's assertions about synergies and suggest a merger with FCA is a bad idea all around.

"Why," asked a high-ranking GM executive, "should [GM] bail out FCA?"

But Marchionne says the logic of the deal is "irrefutable."

"We're not talking about marginal improvement in margins," he said, "we're talking about cataclysmic changes in performance, just huge."
He said: "I've gone through product by product, plant by plant, area by area, and I've analyzed them all.

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20150830/INDUSTRY_ON_TRIAL/308319981?template=mobile

"Look, the combined entity can make $30 billion a year in cash. Thirty. Just think about that [expletive] number," he said. "In steady-state environments, it'll make me $28 to $30 billion," at a seasonally adjusted annual selling rate of 17 million.

Arndt Ellinghorst, head of global automotive research at Evercore ISI, says the target is realistic.

"A combined GM-FCA will generate almost $25 billion in EBITDA this year," Ellinghorst wrote in an email. "If you assume some synergies and peak U.S. cycle market conditions then, yes, they could get to 30 billion in EBITDA."

On background, a GM official said company executives have not seen Marchionne's analysis of what a combined company would look like. But he expressed doubts about how Marchionne could hit his profit projection while keeping a promise made to dealers last week in Las Vegas not to impact retailers or cut manufacturing jobs.

Asked directly, a GM spokesman wouldn't call Marchionne's analysis wrong but said GM officials believe the company and its shareholders are better off on their own.

Marchionne said he has never met GM CEO Mary Barra.

"I'm not trying to date Mary, for the record, but I tried to get to see her."

A GM spokesman said: "We've responded appropriately to any outreaches that he's had."

And if there is resistance to sitting down with FCA because of Marchionne's reputation as a crafty and cagey deal-maker, Marchionne has an answer for that, too.

"Look, I'm a tough negotiator and people know it, right? I am who I am, but so what?" he said. "Send somebody else in. Send the shark. I'd come off the table."

Marchionne insists there is too much to be gained. He said he is "not the guy at the corner who's selling pencils. I tell you that you can make X billion more by being together, I guarantee you that I can carry half the market."

A hard slog

In a note to investors in June, Max Warburton, an analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein, wrote: "Putting together FCA and GM looks like an operational and management nightmare -- but frankly if anyone can smash through the issues and make it function, it would be Marchionne."

The FCA chief himself said: "An attack on GM, properly structured, properly financed, it cannot be refused. You can play hardball to a point. ... It's too big to ignore, which is the issue that our board is facing."

The bottom line on FCA is that $6 billion spent on Alfa is good as gone. No reasonable industry analysts can see even a glimmer of hope for a positive return on investment. So that's the reason why it has no cash reserve, and why it has to keep the incentive flowing to move volume to generate enough cash flow to fund operations.

If that $6 billion had instead gone to accelerating Jeep and Ram product development and paying down debt/building up cash reserve, FCA would not have this crisis level need to keep churning volume to generate cash. And instead, it could focus on profit margin and building improving existing vehicles - you know... like how other car companies are doing it.

To say the Alfa gambit is risky is really understating it. VW wasn't short on cash when it embarked on relaunching Audi. Toyota wasn't scrimping to get by when it began the Lexus project. Even GM is hardly breaking a sweat now writing blank checks on Cadillac. FCA has no business trying to create a new Alfa Romeo from scratch when it can't even sustain the pipeline of all the replacements for existing models.

Another question that FCA shareholders should asking is why Alfa Romeo development is being done in Italy when FCA's expertise in RWD cars are all in Detroit. Sergio duplicated this entire engineering team in Milan when he already had a capable team in Detroit.

Also, don't assume that just because they're selling a lot of vehicles that they're making money in the U.S.

Just prior to 2008, 3 of the top 4 mfrs in sales were losing money hand over fist. 2 went bankrupt and the other one almost did. Toyota was the only one of the top 4 that was turning a profit.

BZC:

That's because Toyota's "Run-away Throttle System was [wait for it] ...A BIG HIT...

[Ba-dum-ba-CRASH!]

The fact that FCA boss Marchionne wants to merge with GM shows that they are in trouble. The currently have some aging decent products but they don't have the cash to do R&D on anything new.

It appears that his answer to the problem is to put lipstick and FCA badges on multiple GM platforms.

How can that be done without a loss of jobs?

As BZC pointed out, 6 billion was spent on the Alfa Romeo wet dream instead of FCA's cash cows, namely Jeep and Ram.

GM doesn't care about Marchionne's 30 billion synergy theology since they would make that amount if FCA died.

There is overcapacity in the auto industry and it still will be there if GM and FCA merges. Factories will close one way or the other.

2009-2012 Ram 1500 pickup trucks built from Feb. 27, 2008, through June 30, 2009, and Dec. 1, 2009, through Oct. 20, 2011. These were recalled in 2013 for rear suspension problems.
2009-2011 Dodge Dakota pickups built from Feb. 27, 2007, through June 30, 2009, and Dec. 1, 2009, through Sept. 30, 2011. These were recalled in 2013 for rear suspension problems.
2009 Dodge Durango SUVs built from Jan. 3. 2008, through Dec. 18, 2008. These were recalled in 2013 for rear suspension problems.
2009 Chrysler Aspen SUVs built from Jan. 3, 2008, to Dec. 18, 2008. These were recalled in 2013 for rear suspension problems.
2008-2012 Ram 4500 and 5500 heavy-duty trucks built from Feb. 20, 2007, through December 2012. These were recalled in 2013 for problems with the steering system.
2008-2012 Ram 2500 and 3500 pickups with four-wheel drive, recalled in 2013 for problems with the steering system.
2008-2012 Ram 3500 chassis-cab pickups with rear-wheel drive, recalled in 2013 for problems with the steering system.
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Mega Cab pickups with four-wheel drive, recalled in 2013 for problems with the steering system.

---

smh.

redbloodedxy - funny but Toyota has rarely ever lost money. They have only EVER had 1 unprofitable year globally in their 60 year existence.

Their President Akio Toyoda atributed it to "Big Company Disease (BCD)". Your joke about unintended acceleration actually was/is a prime example of that problem. GM's ignition fiasco is another example.

Put it this way, if Fiat and GM merge, the Twins will finally be upgraded and we will have a chevy ram, GM Ram and Ram brands

Lou_BC

Point taken...now can I have my joke back?

I read with interest the comments regarding Sergio and his recent unsuccessful attempts dating Barra at GM.

Sergio has always talked and tried big first and then we will most likely see another deal actually occur, not quite as grand as Sergio initially dreamed of.

I can't see a GM/FCA deal happening.

He needs a company with cash or have the ability to get hold of cash.

Why is he just looking at the auto industry then? Diversifiy. Fiat Spa is a large and quite diverse company.

He's seems to shy away from China and other Asian businesses as well, interesting.

I think the biggest hurdle that FCA is currently facing is the EPA and fines they receive for having the least fuel efficient vehicles on the road. Since the ecodiesels aren't really selling well...... Well below the 20% they desired and the lack of sales of good small efficient vehicles to raise there corporate EPA fuel economy average they can't meet the targets and continue with the course they set with there Hemi's and hellcats as well as future models they plan on bringing. FCA needs fuel credits and a merger with gm would allow them to continue on producing the hemi. Without the hemi name plate FCA is dead in America. This isn't about sharing developmental cost.... This is about FCA being able to continue to offer there products that make them money.

Scott,
The EPA and fines are not FCA's biggest hurdles. FCA is not just in the US. Look at FCA's exposure globally.

The biggest hurdle for FCA is it's reputation/quality and the uneven markets it's in globally.

FCA has improved sales in the US. The US looks good. But for FCA to survive, it needs countries like Brazil, which is FCA's best Fiat market to do well. Brazil is in a poor state....again.

The EU is another market that FCA isn't doing as well as it should.

FCA's exposure in the Asia region could be exploited more.

Jeep and Chrysler of North America has been providing all there profits since FCA acquisition of Chrysler group. What they have sold and continue to sell is the hemi name plate. That is what has made there profits available to redesign there brands in Europe. There outside North America operations isn't a profitable venture of any significance at this point. As EPA corporate fuel economy climbs in regulation they don't have the tech the masses want to meet those. Chrysler people want v8 hemi's with blowers on them. As the corporate fuel economy increases so do the fines the further they get away from the increasing requirements.

Scott,
You just made a statement that has many parallels to my comment.

Yes, FCA is reliant on the US. This then leads to what is the problem? Is it he fines and EPA issues?

They are important yes, but not the main issues confronting FCA.

Or, is it the lackluster performance outside of the US market, FCA's global position?

I also don't need a speil on what the EPA does as it has little to do with your statement.

Why?

Because you stated the US is the breadwinner for FCA, globally.

redbloodedxy - sure

Re: FCA doesn't want to merge with GM.

From C&D 1 day ago...

Won't Back Down: Sergio Marchionne Still Pushing for Fiat-Chrysler/GM Merger

http://blog.caranddriver.com/wont-back-down-sergio-marchionne-still-pushing-for-fiat-chryslergm-merger/

They should take these POS's and crush em. Give their owners a real truck. TOYOTA TUNDRA!

Yes, in news again Sept 1 2015.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fiat-chrysler-persistent-merger-gm-220910811.html

I have got to get me one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCxehjcYwlc

Turn it up!

Yes it was,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rViqLAzZyTo

They should take these POS's and crush em. Give their owners a real truck. TOYOTA TUNDRA!

Posted by: America Bails Out Chrysler | Sep 2, 2015 3:38:32 PM

Make mine A Tacoma with a Blown Hemi on Nitro!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtBbe7beha8

Wonder how many ram sales can be tallied up over the past couple years of FCA using this same tactic with its other lines of cars such as jeep, ram etc etc
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/09/maserati-may-have-falsified-monthly-sales-before-fca-went-public/#postcomments

How has this site not had a single note on the FCA announcement that they will be building a new truck based on the next-Gen Wrangler?

Dom And Dodge,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjxmUe4Iv7w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGeju_67Res

Well Dodge/RAM being on the "Not So desirable list" not gonna be good for them.
But data shows Ford & GM got a good review.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-luxury/america%e2%80%99s-best-and-worst-car-brands/ar-BBma4FX

So about once a decade (since the late 70s) Chrysler (not Fiat) goes through a financial/project crisis. It weathered the first with loans (which it paid back thank you Mr Iacocca). It weathered the 2nd on its own, the third by joining Mercedes who if they couldn't make Chrysler work then honestly no one can, they bailed and Cerebis took over... and pillaged it leaving it to bankruptcy and the only US Gov/Taxpayer funded foreign take over of a US Company I have ever heard of by an opportunistic Fiat... and here we are 5 years later and they are still in the toilet. And no the trucks really aren't their problem. The trucks although not the very best on the market are far from being the worst (even with the buy back fiasco), and sell well. Lets be honest... the cars SUCK and have SUCKED hard for a long long long time and continue to suck... yea the Hellcat is cool and some of them look good... but they don't sell and don't hold up and don't get good press and don't appeal to people who value their money and demand reliability. Fiat's Chrysler line up is always late to the party as far as innovation and predicting trends and market tendencies. Now here come all the first independent rear and eco diesel crowd screaming... yea those were good moves but hardly earth shattering/market/game changing and not enough to save a company that clearly outside of a few models lags and is all too often lost. For everyone dreaming of cummins leaving Ram and coming to their favorite company... Nissan would be the best bet there with their new relationship with Cummins and the Titan XD practically already a 3/4 ton and with good sales a 1 ton or even heavier version with a 6.7 might not be far off. Fiat wanting to merge with GM is a sign of their desperation. I don't know if its a good move or not I haven't looked into it at all. I don't think highly of GM with its bankruptcy and bail out and forgiven debts to the US Taxpayer but they are in far better shape than Fiat right now. Fiats drowning and its the Chrysler part that's dragging them under (at least right now). They will grab any rope thrown by anyone. GM doesn't wanna help them. I don't know if that's smart or not. Looking at the history it probably as every company that has owned Jeep has gone bust (even though it sells very well) and every company that has owned Chrysler has wanted to get rid of it.

Clint - interesting and accurate observation. Ironically part of the sale agreement from the USA government to Fiat was the fact that Fiat was supposed to provide high mpg engines and fuel efficiency. All we have seen is the "Hemi" engines get bigger and supercharged and get put in more and more products.
GM does not want to merge with FCA. They were already too big with too many badges. Bin there done that.

How is it that so many anti-FCA zealots don't realize that FCA has off-handedly threatened GM with a hostile takeover? If GM were really as strong financially as some are wont to believe, then such a takeover should be effectively impossible. If FCA is as weak financially as some are wont to believe, then again, such a takeover should be effectively impossible. Yet FCA has made it quite clear that they will do whatever is necessary to effect the desire 'merger'. They just prefer it to be amicable.

Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has some great looking products, but they REALLY need to step it up with their reliability and quality.

@roadwhale - FCA doesn't have the resources to take over GM. They are selling shareholders on "30 billion" EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization) from a combined company.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4sFinzABnk

How has this site not had a single note on the FCA announcement that they will be building a new truck based on the next-Gen Wrangler?

-------

For one, it wasn't a FCA announcement, and two Tim E the editor of the Tundra fan site has been proven wrong again.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2015/03/a-jeep-pickup-we-dont-think-so.html

so he has to come up with a mea culpa.

Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has some great looking products, but they REALLY need to step it up with their reliability and quality.

Posted by: Warazawanga | Sep 3, 2015 11:37:37 AM
FCA Wins Top Quality Awards 2015
Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) has earned top marks in the 2015 Strategic VisionTotal Quality Index (TQI). FCA ranked best in the corporate score category and came out on top in a study that measured over 46.00 customer responses.

Fiat "threatening" GM with a "hostile take over" is just cute. Have you ever been afraid of an asthmatic, 3 legged Chiwawa that that started barking? A big part of GMs problems that led to its bankruptcy (besides like Chrysler and to a lesser extent Ford building crappy to subpar and back to crappy small and mid sized cars for decades) was size. Fiat has brought some small car savy to the game with the Dart and the Renegade and Cherokee... BUT... although small cars are Fiat's bread and butter they don't hold a candle in America to Honda, Toyota, Nissan or Hyundai. To put it optimistically Fiat and its models haven't been in America long enough for someone to say... "Ive owned a 500/Dart/Cherokee/Renegade for 10 years got 200K and all ive done change the oil and put gas in it..." This is part of the issue with the big 3 minus 1 always failing to make headway into being able to sell small and mid sized cars for profit (as Toy/Nis/Honda do) not just for mileage standards in order to be able to sell SUVs and trucks which only works when gas is cheap and economy is at least treading water. Sadly also Fiats attempts at small cars in the US market have been mixed in the press. If you really love your company and love your truck and love the truck your company makes then you also need to pay attention to the cars your company makes and how well they do and the market strategies/philosophies they follow. It shows depth and intelligence or a lack of. We all want what we want. We all like what we like... does what we want or like make sense? is it smart? how does it do as a whole? what is the long run? The path to bankruptcy was long and slow for GM and Chrysler. FULL of mishaps, mistakes, stupidity, squandered opportunities, waste, greed and most of all shortsighted thinking which all come to roost as soon as there is an economic hiccup or hike in fuel prices or increase in CAFE. Maybe just maybe they would weather those issues if say they adopted the model of more stable examples in their industry. There are companies that lose money on EVERY fullsize truck they make and sell in the US and its not an issue for them. Every one of those trucks are made in the USA too... When your small cars are good enough to be bestseller and each one sells at a profit you don't NEED to sell big SUVs or Trucks to stay afloat... You can gradually work into the market and work up to a profit on them and weaken your competition gradually. Because those small and mid sized cars are you bread and butter your safety net and they sell... they sell when times are bad, and times are good, they sell to the lower classes and middle classes and some of the upper classes. The lower classes come back and buy more later or come back as upper classes and buy more or better models later because they had positive experiences... They sell because people NEED to get to work and NEED transportation. When you see Ford or GM in a position to not NEED to sell trucks to get through a year, a quarter, a month, a day a minuet. Then they have truly learned their lesson and turned that cant handle a crisis corner.

That's cute Hemi... and im sure you overlooked the Consumer reports and other rankings putting Chrysler and many of its products in the toilet (mostly the Grand Cherokee and 200). Because it wasn't convenient

Ive never heard of the Strategic VisionTotal Quality Index (TQI)... Is it like a version of Kelly, or Car and Driver or Motor Trend or Consumer Reports or JD Power no one has ever heard of? Who won it last year? The year before? Did it even exist 2 years ago? Honestly never mind I (like most never heard of it and don't care). Im confident its not on the grocery store shelves.

When I was selling cars it was a real education in the market. One of the wildest craziest lessons I learned was that unlike you or me or all the people wasting time on this site arguing for what they like and citing obscure points of proof/reference for their view like TQI is that most people don't know jack about cars/trucks. And even more mind blowing is they don't wanna know. A car is something they just gotta have because they need to. They don't know about it don't care about it and want to invest as little thought in it as possible. They want it to work, look nice, and be comfortable... the smart ones also want it to be affordable. To fill these needs with the "best product" available they rely on what "their daddy" taught them and or some in your face publications (like CONSUMER REPORTS not tqi) and their past experience. For these people who make up this HUGE group they don't even look under the hood, their eyes glaze over when you tell them that one version of a car has rear disc and another doesn't they don't know or care what the paddle shifters do. Just like I only have a computer because I need one (I don't care whats inside it I just want it to work) and how a computer geek thinks im a dolt for not caring is how most people are and how "car people" view them. And most people are not car people. This stunned me. I thought everyone cared about this stuff.. I mean its expensive and you use it every day... yea so is your refrigerator but you don't care how it works too just that it does. Needless to say selling cars got a lot easier when I focused on the shiney wheels and heated seats as opposed to brakes, handling, and safety in the overwhelming majority of cases.

Try for a second to divorce yourself from your own obsession (brand/product) and look at the bigger picture. Look outside of Ram at Fiat. Look at the history, the path the road. It hasn't been all Power Wagons and Cummins engines (which Ram doesn't even make but is VERY smart to have). Look beyond a 2015 award from a body no one knows... in a decade that award might mean something if the cars have held up and the organization that gave it has legs. Today all it tells me is someone obscure thinks Fiat is FINALLY on the right track... The proof comes with decades. For DECADES Chrysler has been "turning it around" and been getting "as good as the foreign competition" but they really haven't. They aren't the only one with this tired lie. The proof is in their company's health. For prespective... Toyota makes more profit than all other manufacturers combined... Doesn't that tell you anything about how things are from the ground up?

@Clint - kudos on both posts.

Consumer Reports: Ram is best half-ton pickup.

http://news.allpar.com/index.php/2014/08/consumer-reports-rates-ram-ecodiesel-best-in-half-tons-25865

@HEMI V8, Kudos on both posts.

G
UTS
G
LORY
CONSUMER REPORTS BEST HALF TON
RAM!