Spied: 2017 Ford F-150 TurboDiesel

F-150 diesel 4 II

Our clever spy photographers are seeing some interesting tailpipes on pickup trucks driving around Dearborn, Mich., as rumors continue to surround a new turbo-diesel Ford F-150 for next year. With the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel's success, we knew it wouldn't be long before Ford jumped in this arena. Ford has been waiting to see if the demand was there. Clearly, there is. Here's the note we just received.

This is the Ford F-150 caught testing in Dearborn with a camo'd bed, Venturi exhaust tip, and very likely a new 3.0-liter V-6 diesel engine under the hood.

Not wanting the fuel economy crown to go to the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel among full-size pickups, Ford is preparing to introduce a new turbo-diesel to the popular F-150 lineup.

While many have been predicting Ford would use the 3.2-liter five-cylinder Power Stroke diesel that's been federalized for the Transit line of full-size vans, our sources say the company will use the Lion 3.0-liter V-6. This 3.0-liter unit is basically what Jaguar Land Rover has just certified and introduced to Americans in the new Range Rover and Range Rover Sport Td6 models; in that configuration it has a rating of 254 horsepower and 440 pounds-feet of torque.

We're also hearing the diesel is slated to use the new 10-speed automatic transmission that debuts in the 2017 Raptor. That may push its overall efficiency even higher than the Ram's and into 30-mpg territory, which could also compete with the figures offered by the recently introduced Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon four-cylinder turbo-diesel.

We expect a diesel F-150 to go on sale sometime around fall 2016.

SpiedBilde images

 

F-150 diesel BW 2 II

F-150 diesel BW II

 

Comments

Some people have had good luck but as a whole the past transmission coming from Chrysler are very well documented as pure junk. That is why Fiat is sourcing out transmission like ZF and Aisin. Granted Jeep has been using ZF for quite a few years now.

Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 3:54:39 PM

That's completely bs. 545 RFE is one of the most reliable on the market for decades.
Just ask any transmission service center, if you don't know too much about transmissions.

@Scott
You are wrong, that's why all of that is going to happen, even if you don't like it.
2nd generation 8 speed, Start-Stop, hybrid , automatic air dam, automatic radiator shutters, class leading aero.....

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 3:31:44 PM

I am not going to question about start stop in a diesel because i have only driven gas engine start stop. But i find it hard to see with a HPCR diesel to have start stop and be effective. That starter needs to crank so many revolutions to get the HPFP to get the 5000psi for the starting of the fuel system. Give or take 1000 psi depending on system. Think of the starter draw on the batteries and wear on the starter on a diesel that is 17:1 compression. Automatic shutters are already here and engineers say it does improve HWY MPG. How much, depends on application.

@LMAO
You have no idea how common rail system works. It has separate high pressure pump.

I think you'll find a greater take up of diesel light pickups for commercial applications.

I really don't think the 5 or 600 timber getter in the wilds of BC Canada are representative of the greater commercial sector.

There are far more urban pickups used for commercial applications than redneck chainsaw operators using pickups in the wilds of Canada.

Why is it then the larger vans are selling more and more diesels? These vans are also used in areas where the smaller midsizers would be used by business.

Why would you want a 15.6mpg F-150 for a business when you can go out and buy a 26mpg vehicle that will do the same job?

The midsizer is better suited as well in an urban environment when it comes to parking and access.

Seems to me to be a no brainer in buying a diesel, even with the added cost of the diesel. It doesn't take long to make up that 10mpg cost wise.

That's completely bs. 545 RFE is one of the most reliable on the market for decades.
Just ask any transmission service center, if you don't know too much about transmissions.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:07:50 PM

been around them for 20 years and still have friends in the transmission business.

@LMAO
You have no idea how common rail system works. It has separate high pressure pump.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:15:48 PM

How is it driven? Here is a hint, off of engine rotation. usually from a gear off the camshaft.

The common rail system
High-pressure pumps

The high-pressure pump compresses the fuel and supplies it in the required quantity. It constantly feeds fuel to the high-pressure reservoir (rail), thereby maintaining the system pressure. The required pressure is available even at low engine speeds, as pressure generation is not linked to the engine speed.

No problem for Start-Stop systems. There are also better systems to start engine than outdated regular starters. Belt driven starter generator , which will be used this year in FCA or Starter -Generator incorporated directly at trany input shaft, like 8 speed ZF is ready from day 1.


The high-pressure pump compresses the fuel and supplies it in the required quantity. It constantly feeds fuel to the high-pressure reservoir (rail), thereby maintaining the system pressure. The required pressure is available even at low engine speeds, as pressure generation is not linked to the engine speed.

No problem for Start-Stop systems. There are also better systems to start engine than outdated regular starters. Belt driven starter generator , which will be used this year in FCA or Starter -Generator incorporated directly at trany input shaft, like 8 speed ZF is ready from day 1.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:27:08 PM

This shows your ignorance with HPCR systems. The pump is connected to the engine. Fuel pressure is not a direct relationship to engine speed because of the High Pressure Fuel Regulator. The regulator is used to allow the exact amount of pressure for the fuel required by the engine. This is an electrical component.

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/an-inside-look-at-the-ram-1500-3-0l-ecodiesel/

In addition to the high injection rate, the engine uses a Bosch high pressure fuel pump that is able to maintain 2,000 bar (roughly 29,000psi) in both fuel rails. The pump is driven off of the exhaust camshaft via a gear to gear mesh. The pump is mounted to the front cover on the passenger’s side (right side) and is a twin pump style much like the Duramax and 6.7 Power Stroke.

So what. It will start instantly. That pressure from rail doesn't dissappear in 2 minutes waiting on the red light, not even overnight.

So what. It will start instantly. That pressure from rail doesn't dissappear in 2 minutes waiting on the red light, not even overnight.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:45:48 PM

Actually there is pressure drop. It is not instant but it does drop. It bleeds back through the pump and past the regulator.

@LMAO
You have no idea how common rail system works. It has separate high pressure pump.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:15:48 PM

So yes i have a very good idea on how HPCR works. It appears that you do not.

After Nissan swept the Texas truck awards Ford ,GM Toyota
are all going to follow Nissan.
it is inevitable as it stands the Titan xD is the brute of the 1/2 ton class . Any claims that a f150 can tow as much is laughable.
Bring forth the 1/2 ton trucks with 6.5 bed 4x4 and crew cab
the Titan XD will knock them all back.
The big companies GM Nissan Toyota and perhaps Volkswagen eventually are the ones to watch .

So what. It will start instantly.
Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:45:48 PM

There is not instant start. The crankshaft still needs to turn with the camshaft to get both crank and cam profile for engine position for the start and for fuel timing. Several rotations need to occur to pick up this profile.

@LMAO
Doesn’t matter. Engine will start sooner, than you switch your foot from brake to gas pedal.

@LMAO
Doesn’t matter. Engine will start sooner, than you switch your foot from brake to gas pedal.


Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 5:09:14 PM

Hmmmm your story keeps changing. Nice try though Rambot.

Must be Ford has no faith in themselves to build their own diesel to put in their F150. You are such a loser Ford!

What story ?
This story ?

I am not going to question about start stop in a diesel because i have only driven gas engine start stop. But i find it hard to see with a HPCR diesel to have start stop and be effective. That starter needs to crank so many revolutions to get the HPFP to get the 5000psi for the starting of the fuel system. Give or take 1000 psi depending on system. Think of the starter draw on the batteries and wear on the starter on a diesel that is 17:1 compression. Automatic shutters are already here and engineers say it does improve HWY MPG. How much, depends on application.

Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 4:12:32 PM

Starter doesn't need so many revolution to start diesel when it stops for 2 minutes at the red light. Pump is not going to lose that much pressure in the rail, it would be very zhitty pump you know nothing about. I had common rail diesel 17 years ago and it started instantly, not so many crank revolutions , like you said needed, even over night. Go see any dealer and ask them to start it for you, before you spread this nonsense.

Engine will start sooner, than you switch your foot from brake to gas pedal.

Ford likes to play in all markets even if they didn't create said market. The big 3 made class 8 trucks. Dodge and ford got out, gm sold their line to Volvo. I think if ford had remained steel they would already have a 1/2 ton diesel. Even a company as cash heavy as ford can't do everything at once.

before you spread this nonsense.

Engine will start sooner, than you switch your foot from brake to gas pedal.


Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 5:31:55 PM

Im sorry but the nonsense is coming from you the Rambot. So Trol! somewhere else. You keep changing your story on HPCR it is hillarious. You are the one that knows nothing other than being a keyboard cowgirl.

Before someone corrects me, ford sold their interest to sterling.

@LMAO
If that's the only argument you have about stop-start diesel system, I am OK with that.

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Spied: 2017 Ford F-150 TurboDiesel
Posted by Mark Williams | December 19, 2015

F-150 diesel 4 II

Our clever spy photographers are seeing some interesting tailpipes on pickup trucks driving around Dearborn, Mich., as rumors continue to surround a new turbo-diesel Ford F-150 for next year. With the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel's success, we knew it wouldn't be long before Ford jumped in this arena. Ford has been waiting to see if the demand was there. Clearly, there is. Here's the note we just received.

This is the Ford F-150 caught testing in Dearborn with a camo'd bed, Venturi exhaust tip, and very likely a new 3.0-liter V-6 diesel engine under the hood.

Not wanting the fuel economy crown to go to the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel among full-size pickups, Ford is preparing to introduce a new turbo-diesel to the popular F-150 lineup.

While many have been predicting Ford would use the 3.2-liter five-cylinder Power Stroke diesel that's been federalized for the Transit line of full-size vans, our sources say the company will use the Lion 3.0-liter V-6. This 3.0-liter unit is basically what Jaguar Land Rover has just certified and introduced to Americans in the new Range Rover and Range Rover Sport Td6 models; in that configuration it has a rating of 254 horsepower and 440 pounds-feet of torque.

We're also hearing the diesel is slated to use the new 10-speed automatic transmission that debuts in the 2017 Raptor. That may push its overall efficiency even higher than the Ram's and into 30-mpg territory, which could also compete with the figures offered by the recently introduced Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon four-cylinder turbo-diesel.

We expect a diesel F-150 to go on sale sometime around fall 2016.

SpiedBilde images

F-150 diesel BW 2 II

F-150 diesel BW II


Comments (71) in Ford, Ford F-150, Spy Photos
Comments

It will be interesting to see how successful it will be with gas prices so low.
Posted by: Dav | Dec 19, 2015 8:54:16 AM

Ford has had a diesel for a very long time to put in the F150. Even back when they had a relationship with International. I guess time will tell if they go that route. At least Fat Albert Of Oz should be excited over this. If it can perform when towing as good as the 3.5L Ecoboost engine then it should be a good option for the towing guys. If it is slow like the EcoFiat then to me it is just for the FE guys.
Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 9:01:07 AM

Great.. Source an engine from a company who is known to have reliability issues.. Go get that 5L cummins and outsell everyone..
Posted by: Matt | Dec 19, 2015 9:33:36 AM

5.0 cummins get like 15 mpg in the 3/4 ton Titan. It would be luck to get 17 mpg in a halfton. That is the reason ram didn't take it was horrible mpg's
Posted by: scott | Dec 19, 2015 9:46:46 AM

Ford originally developed that engine in the UK for Jaguar and Land Rover. That should do very well, and of course in North America, it will be called a Power Stroke.
Posted by: Alex | Dec 19, 2015 9:53:36 AM

I still take the Cummins design in question for the heads. Same design as the International DT365 (aka 6.0L) with head bolts on each side of the cylinders with not top and bottom bolts. International had issues with a bigger sized engine and cast iron heads. Cummins uses less CC but similar power output as the 6.0L and use aluminum heads. Both GM and Ford on their current diesels use aluminum heads and bolts on either side of the cylinder and top and bottom of the cylinder. I hope i'm wrong and history does not repeat itself. I've been on some Fiat forums and some guys were lifting heads on the 6.7L Cummins.
Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 9:57:27 AM

"30-mpg territory" WOW, better fuel mileage than the Colorado/Canyon Twins????
Posted by: Chuck Taylor | Dec 19, 2015 10:34:43 AM

This mill will deliver some +35 mpg and a hefty 440 lb/ft of torque.

Its far more than the current 3,5 liter EcoBoost is producing. It´s going to be a hit
Posted by: Willy | Dec 19, 2015 10:39:40 AM

RAM is a leader, ford follows as usual. Aluminium didn't help. Ford needs diesel and 10 speed. Just one more year to wait for ford customers. Plain and simple.
Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 11:05:18 AM

RAM is a leader, ford follows as usual. Aluminium didn't help. Ford needs diesel and 10 speed. Just one more year to wait for ford customers. Plain and simple.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 11:05:18 AM

Yes, Fiat is the leader
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/27/business/fiat-chrysler-faces-record-105-million-fine-for-safety-issues.html?_r=0

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/fiat-chrysler-pay-70-million-fine-us-government-35693920

but not in a good way. So stay on your Canadian best FE thread.
Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 11:30:07 AM

I'll give 2.7 ecoboost not even one more year in f150 before they discontinue that useless thirsty truck engine.


Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 11:32:11 AM

I posted several times at Canadian Truck King Challenge, that 2.7 ecoboost is useless thirsty truck engine with worse FE than 3.5 ecoboost and ford will ditch it as soon as they have diesel and voila, that article where I am right again is here. Feels good.
Ford always follows.
RAM is a leader.


Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 11:39:16 AM

RAM is a leader.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 11:39:16 AM

Yes in poor reliability.

https://www.cars.com/articles/consumer-reports-reliability-study-toyota-thrives-fiat-fails-1420682551916/
Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 11:48:31 AM

RAM is a leader.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 11:39:16 AM

Yes in poor reliability

https://www.cars.com/articles/consumer-reports-reliability-study-toyota-thrives-fiat-fails-1420682551916/
Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 11:49:41 AM

The 3 litre V6 Lion is an expensive engine. It 's quite a nice engine to drive with ample power. I have driven vehicles fitted with the Lion V6, a Ford Territory.

I do think the guys are dreaming if they think it will be more economical than the VM V6 diesel. FE will be around the same.

This engine is a step in the right direction for the aluminium F-150, but as I mentioned it will make an already expensive vehicle more expensive.

Even though it would of been slower I would of like to have seen the 3.2 Duratorq fitted to the F-150. This engine would of helped contain costs.

I do believe Ford will attempt to emulate the success Ram has had with it's VM V6 diesel in the 1500. FCA anticipated a 10% take up rate with the little diesel Ram, but the figures are double.

The same has occurred with the Colorado/Canyon. The take up rate is higher for these midsizers than many would of considered possible. Now with a diesel midsizer available brings the US pickups ever closer to what we have.

Yup, I have been predicting this for years. I wonder if the diesel will help Ford? The Lion V6 F-150 will be uncompetitive with the XD Titan, like the VM Ram is.
Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 12:07:31 PM

I agree with you Big Al from Oz, that this diesel won't have better FE than Ecodiesel. Look at the Canyon FE. It's not that easy accomplished what RAM has done. It will be just ford alternative for diesel option, like RAM has for years, because 2.7 ecoboost is clearly not FE and will be ditched from f150 line, because it didn't take off. It will be more expensive truck than RAM, because of aluminium body. They still have to build that factory for 10 speed I keep hearing for last 4 years and there won't be real advantage of 10 speed over upgraded ZF8 speed 2nd Generation anyway.

The second generation ZF 8HP automatic was first used in the BMW 520d. “Comprehensive” changes have lower drag torque, a higher gear spread (distance between first and eighth), and lower vibration.

The changes, which increase efficiency “by up to 3%,” were partly made to deal with small, turbocharged engines, and to work better with engines that reach peak torque early on (such as diesels). The latter required a higher gear range, so that the eight-speed will move from 7.0 to 7.8 — incidentally beating the eight-speed currently used by General Motors.

Internal losses were cut partly by adding sprints into the multidisk packages of the shift elements, to almost fully open friction shift elements and thereby cause less drag torque. Power losses were cut by over two thirds, according to ZF.
Creep torque has been cut by fully opening a clutch during deceleration and when the vehicle is stopped, so that drivers don’t have to brake to keep the car from moving (which may feel odd to some drivers). The oil pump pressure has been cut in pressure by around 30%.
New torsional vibration dampers eliminate vibrations from the engine, stopping them from moving along the driveline and into the driveline and the body.
The new torque converter allows faster transmission of power and lets lock-up occur much earlier.

Coasting with the transmission uncoupled can now occur at speeds up to around 100 mph, and stop-start systems can now work immediately instead of after 1.5 seconds.
The transmission also improves downshifts, providing nested multiple downshifts for even quicker response times.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/ZF8.html

Automated air dam coming to 2018 Rams

http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2015/10/automated-air-dam-coming-to-2018-rams-30210

Yes, RAM is a technology leader.
Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 12:59:18 PM

I agree with you Big Al from Oz.
Posted by: Big Al from Oz supporter | Dec 19, 2015 1:12:22 PM

Yes, RAM is a technology leader.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 12:59:18 PM

yea right. They BUY everything. You even proved that in your post with the ZF transmission. These are transmissions forsale. Fiat does not lead for technology. Epic fail HAHAHAHAHA. At least Ford and GM tend to do most of their stuff in house while your fiat looks on amazon and JC Whitney for its next product development. Truly classic rambot.
Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 1:15:59 PM

RAM bought ZF licence and has own 8 speed factory. They modified ZF design to meet Chrysler needs. Nothing wrong to use some best component and improve, instead of building their own krap and discontinued after one year. There wouldn't be world or US without Chrysler as we know it. Thanks to FIAT to save this iconic brand and best engineers.

http://www.allpar.com//history/military/quiz/

http://www.allpar.com/history/index.html

Ford customers bends over and are guinea pigs. They use to buy what ford tells them in commercial. I can't wait for ford small diesel commercial. It will start like this. " Best in class...."
LOL.
Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 1:44:02 PM

The 3 litre V6 Lion is an expensive engine. It 's quite a nice engine to drive with ample power. I have driven vehicles fitted with the Lion V6, a Ford Territory.

I do think the guys are dreaming if they think it will be more economical than the VM V6 diesel. FE will be around the same.

This engine is a step in the right direction for the aluminium F-150, but as I mentioned it will make an already expensive vehicle more expensive.

Even though it would of been slower I would of like to have seen the 3.2 Duratorq fitted to the F-150. This engine would of helped contain costs.

I do believe Ford will attempt to emulate the success Ram has had with it's VM V6 diesel in the 1500. FCA anticipated a 10% take up rate with the little diesel Ram, but the figures are double.

The same has occurred with the Colorado/Canyon. The take up rate is higher for these midsizers than many would of considered possible. Now with a diesel midsizer available brings the US pickups ever closer to what we have.

Yup, I have been predicting this for years. I wonder if the diesel will help Ford? The Lion V6 F-150 will be uncompetitive with the XD Titan, like the VM Ram is.
Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 1:53:09 PM

The 3 litre V6 Lion is an expensive engine. It 's quite a nice engine to drive with ample power. I have driven vehicles fitted with the Lion V6, a Ford Territory.

I do think the guys are dreaming if they think it will be more economical than the VM V6 diesel. FE will be around the same.

This engine is a step in the right direction for the aluminium F-150, but as I mentioned it will make an already expensive vehicle more expensive.

Even though it would of been slower I would of like to have seen the 3.2 Duratorq fitted to the F-150. This engine would of helped contain costs.

I do believe Ford will attempt to emulate the success Ram has had with it's VM V6 diesel in the 1500. FCA anticipated a 10% take up rate with the little diesel Ram, but the figures are double.

The same has occurred with the Colorado/Canyon. The take up rate is higher for these midsizers than many would of considered possible. Now with a diesel midsizer available brings the US pickups ever closer to what we have.

Yup, I have been predicting this for years. I wonder if the diesel will help Ford? The Lion V6 F-150 will be uncompetitive with the XD Titan, like the VM Ram is.
Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 1:53:10 PM

The 3 litre V6 Lion is an expensive engine. It 's quite a nice engine to drive with ample power. I have driven vehicles fitted with the Lion V6, a Ford Territory.

I do think the guys are dreaming if they think it will be more economical than the VM V6 diesel. FE will be around the same.

This engine is a step in the right direction for the aluminium F-150, but as I mentioned it will make an already expensive vehicle more expensive.

Even though it would of been slower I would of like to have seen the 3.2 Duratorq fitted to the F-150. This engine would of helped contain costs.

I do believe Ford will attempt to emulate the success Ram has had with it's VM V6 diesel in the 1500. FCA anticipated a 10% take up rate with the little diesel Ram, but the figures are double.

The same has occurred with the Colorado/Canyon. The take up rate is higher for these midsizers than many would of considered possible. Now with a diesel midsizer available brings the US pickups ever closer to what we have.

Yup, I have been predicting this for years. I wonder if the diesel will help Ford? The Lion V6 F-150 will be uncompetitive with the XD Titan, like the VM Ram is.
Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 1:53:11 PM

The 3 litre V6 Lion is an expensive engine. It 's quite a nice engine to drive with ample power. I have driven vehicles fitted with the Lion V6, a Ford Territory.

I do think the guys are dreaming if they think it will be more economical than the VM V6 diesel. FE will be around the same.

This engine is a step in the right direction for the aluminium F-150, but as I mentioned it will make an already expensive vehicle more expensive.

Even though it would of been slower I would of like to have seen the 3.2 Duratorq fitted to the F-150. This engine would of helped contain costs.

I do believe Ford will attempt to emulate the success Ram has had with it's VM V6 diesel in the 1500. FCA anticipated a 10% take up rate with the little diesel Ram, but the figures are double.

The same has occurred with the Colorado/Canyon. The take up rate is higher for these midsizers than many would of considered possible. Now with a diesel midsizer available brings the US pickups ever closer to what we have.

Yup, I have been predicting this for years. I wonder if the diesel will help Ford? The Lion V6 F-150 will be uncompetitive with the XD Titan, like the VM Ram is.
Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 1:53:12 PM

RAM bought ZF licence and has own 8 speed factory. They modified ZF design to meet Chrysler needs. Nothing wrong to use some best component and improve, instead of building their own krap and discontinued after one year. There wouldn't be world or US without Chrysler as we know it. Thanks to FIAT to save this iconic brand and best engineers.

http://www.allpar.com//history/military/quiz/

http://www.allpar.com/history/index.html

Ford customers bends over and are guinea pigs. They use to buy what ford tells them in commercial. I can't wait for ford small diesel commercial. It will start like this. " Best in class...."
LOL.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 1:44:02 PM

Exactly. Fiat cannot design their own crap so they have to buy some other companies ideas. Nice try.

FYI Ford used the 5R110W from 2003 till 2015. Their own design for trucks and vans. Bullet proof reputation. The Ford 6R series rear drive transmission has been used since 2007 and is still in production with the smaller units in Expedition. Transit, and F150. The larger capacity in Superduty, F53 and F59 chassis plus F650/750s. Again all Ford design and bullet proof reputation.

Try again Rambot.
Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 1:55:47 PM

It was only a matter of time that Ford finally decided to put a diesel in their light duty trucks. It'll be interesting to see what the competition will look like when the electrification and hydrogen races become more prominent.
Posted by: Warazawanga | Dec 19, 2015 2:09:28 PM

I hope this happens . Maybe GM will follow with a diesel option on the Chevy 1500 and Sierra 1500 ! I have read that GM can make a 6 cylinder out of the Colorado 4 cylinder diesel .
Posted by: Louis o | Dec 19, 2015 2:09:28 PM

LAMO, come, DiM, Alex and the other troulling titles you use,
Why do you attempt to belittle people?

Does this make you blow in your pants, or what?

The only reason you do this on PUTC is due to the lax security.

Are you a sociopath? Control and winning is all you are concerned with.

Do you arrive at pleasure by your actions?

You are a weak human.
Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 2:10:24 PM

I will try again.
My 545 RFE Chrysler transmission since 2001 is bulletprof. Not even one problem in Durango with 265,000kms I sold, not even one problem in RAM 1500 Laramie with 165,000kms.
What's your problem ?
Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 2:16:58 PM

http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/ford-is-testing-the-f-150-with-a-land-rover-diesel-engi-1748573159?trending_test_five_c&utm_expid=66866090-76.Xf7HV5ZSS3i8CtAkjmzQiA.3&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
Posted by: Truckerman | Dec 19, 2015 2:20:53 PM

Warazawanga,
I would like to know when Ford will announce the return of the Ranger.

But, Ford first need to recoup some of the massive development and retooling costs of the aluminium pickups.

Ford made a poor decision. Ford would of been better of just offering this V6 diesel in a highly revamped old steel F-150. Ford could of save at least 400lbs on that truck.
Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 2:21:13 PM

Not interested in the diesel that costs thousands more. Any decent midrange trim with a diesel will be over $50k US. Thanks but no thanks. But I am interested in the 2017 refresh. It will be yuggggge!
Posted by: Dave Z. | Dec 19, 2015 2:23:21 PM

zvier@,
Be careful at what you are placing on PUTC. Don't just "go off" emotionally.

Look at how and what they are presenting to you. Alex and LAMO, are all the same. They will purposely understate and overstate inaccuracies to wind you up. Let it go and concentrate on facts.

Like the poor FE from the aluminium F-150. This they can't dispute. Worrying about 0-60 times, load and tow, etc are trivial.

Concentrate on consumer perception.
Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 2:25:33 PM

A f150 diesel won't sell well. It will just be a token best in class claim. But you will see additional payoff of the aluminum develops by ford even more then currently. Even with diesel and hybrid they will be the lightest in class. They already get the best gas powered mpg's according to the Canadian truck results but deliver superior performance while getting the best mpg's. You aren't going to get any better mpg in the ram ecodiesel without going aluminum.... And light weight.

The race to govt mpg mandate isn't going to be achieved by diesel and heavy steel. Ford chose to do the hardest part first. The 2016 f150's are even lighter then the 2015's
Posted by: scott | Dec 19, 2015 2:32:52 PM

@Scott
Of course you can get better FE without aluminium, like Sergio stated many times-they will get there with technology, not with expensive aluminium. 2nd generation 8 speed is 3% more efficient already, automatic air dam will help as well. 8 speed is fully ready for belt start - stop system, hybrid system from start as well. Aluminium won't help achieve what this technology does. 2.7 ecoboost in aluminium truck is clear example of this ford fail.
Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 2:59:29 PM

Ram VM is maxed out on mpg. Start stop on a diesel would really shorten its life and only improves around town mpg's you add hybrid system on a full loaded ram Eco diesel it will push its weight into 3/4 ton class to get any capability. Add a couple hundred pounds of hybrid drive train/battery to a ram you will have either a 1/2 ton truck with really poor capacities or they have to bump its rating into hd category to get respectable ratings. The same thing Nissan ran into with there xd..... Too heavy to license it as a 1/2 ton and a really incapable 3/4 ton.
Posted by: scott | Dec 19, 2015 3:08:09 PM

Dave Z,
The cost of pickups in the US will rise and continue to outstrip the CPI. This is a given.

You will see more and more businesses move over to the little EU vans with 2 litre gas engines more and more.

You will see more businesses move to the larger Transit style vehicles as well, with smaller engines in lieu of some of the HD work. Not all HDs are just used to tow.

The big three will soon realise that this load and tow race is just that a race with no real benefits for the consumer.

There is only so much need for these vehicles. They are nice and great and offer some fantastic performance, but is it required by business?

Because as you stated pickups are becoming more expensive, they will become more of a SUV/car alternative than they already are. 75% are just that. Even many business pickups, even though they are a tax deduction are in fact daily drivers.

My step brothers neighbour in NJ had a pickup as a business write off. I asked him why doesn't he use it for work, his comment was it's what the wife drives and I still use the van with the tools in the back and a tandem wheel trailer to carry building materials.

So many business pickups are not working vehicles. Just a tax dodge.

Prices will rise to the point were pickups will become less viable as the most economical vehicle for business.

The EU can function quite successfully without pickups for work.

Pickups are going the way of horses. There was a time when horses where the engines and vehicles of work. Now they are just recreational toys, like 75% of pickups.
Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 3:11:57 PM

Dave Z,
The cost of pickups in the US will rise and continue to outstrip the CPI. This is a given.

You will see more and more businesses move over to the little EU vans with 2 litre gas engines more and more.

You will see more businesses move to the larger Transit style vehicles as well, with smaller engines in lieu of some of the HD work. Not all HDs are just used to tow.

The big three will soon realise that this load and tow race is just that a race with no real benefits for the consumer.

There is only so much need for these vehicles. They are nice and great and offer some fantastic performance, but is it required by business?

Because as you stated pickups are becoming more expensive, they will become more of a SUV/car alternative than they already are. 75% are just that. Even many business pickups, even though they are a tax deduction are in fact daily drivers.

My step brothers neighbour in NJ had a pickup as a business write off. I asked him why doesn't he use it for work, his comment was it's what the wife drives and I still use the van with the tools in the back and a tandem wheel trailer to carry building materials.

So many business pickups are not working vehicles. Just a tax dodge.

Prices will rise to the point were pickups will become less viable as the most economical vehicle for business.

The EU can function quite successfully without pickups for work.

Pickups are going the way of horses. There was a time when horses where the engines and vehicles of work. Now they are just recreational toys, like 75% of pickups.
Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 3:11:57 PM

Dave Z,
The cost of pickups in the US will rise and continue to outstrip the CPI. This is a given.

You will see more and more businesses move over to the little EU vans with 2 litre gas engines more and more.

You will see more businesses move to the larger Transit style vehicles as well, with smaller engines in lieu of some of the HD work. Not all HDs are just used to tow.

The big three will soon realise that this load and tow race is just that a race with no real benefits for the consumer.

There is only so much need for these vehicles. They are nice and great and offer some fantastic performance, but is it required by business?

Because as you stated pickups are becoming more expensive, they will become more of a SUV/car alternative than they already are. 75% are just that. Even many business pickups, even though they are a tax deduction are in fact daily drivers.

My step brothers neighbour in NJ had a pickup as a business write off. I asked him why doesn't he use it for work, his comment was it's what the wife drives and I still use the van with the tools in the back and a tandem wheel trailer to carry building materials.

So many business pickups are not working vehicles. Just a tax dodge.

Prices will rise to the point were pickups will become less viable as the most economical vehicle for business.

The EU can function quite successfully without pickups for work.

Pickups are going the way of horses. There was a time when horses where the engines and vehicles of work. Now they are just recreational toys, like 75% of pickups.

Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 3:16:37 PM

Dave Z,
The cost of pickups in the US will rise and continue to outstrip the CPI. This is a given.

You will see more and more businesses move over to the little EU vans with 2 litre gas engines more and more.

You will see more businesses move to the larger Transit style vehicles as well, with smaller engines in lieu of some of the HD work. Not all HDs are just used to tow.

The big three will soon realise that this load and tow race is just that a race with no real benefits for the consumer.

There is only so much need for these vehicles. They are nice and great and offer some fantastic performance, but is it required by business?

Because as you stated pickups are becoming more expensive, they will become more of a SUV/car alternative than they already are. 75% are just that. Even many business pickups, even though they are a tax deduction are in fact daily drivers.

My step brothers neighbour in NJ had a pickup as a business write off. I asked him why doesn't he use it for work, his comment was it's what the wife drives and I still use the van with the tools in the back and a tandem wheel trailer to carry building materials.

So many business pickups are not working vehicles. Just a tax dodge.

Prices will rise to the point were pickups will become less viable as the most economical vehicle for business.

The EU can function quite successfully without pickups for work.

Pickups are going the way of horses. There was a time when horses where the engines and vehicles of work. Now they are just recreational toys, like 75% of pickups.

Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 3:16:37 PM

Dave Z,
The cost of pickups in the US will rise and continue to outstrip the CPI. This is a given.

You will see more and more businesses move over to the little EU vans with 2 litre gas engines more and more.

You will see more businesses move to the larger Transit style vehicles as well, with smaller engines in lieu of some of the HD work. Not all HDs are just used to tow.

The big three will soon realise that this load and tow race is just that a race with no real benefits for the consumer.

There is only so much need for these vehicles. They are nice and great and offer some fantastic performance, but is it required by business?

Because as you stated pickups are becoming more expensive, they will become more of a SUV/car alternative than they already are. 75% are just that. Even many business pickups, even though they are a tax deduction are in fact daily drivers.

My step brothers neighbour in NJ had a pickup as a business write off. I asked him why doesn't he use it for work, his comment was it's what the wife drives and I still use the van with the tools in the back and a tandem wheel trailer to carry building materials.

So many business pickups are not working vehicles. Just a tax dodge.

Prices will rise to the point were pickups will become less viable as the most economical vehicle for business.

The EU can function quite successfully without pickups for work.

Pickups are going the way of horses. There was a time when horses where the engines and vehicles of work. Now they are just recreational toys, like 75% of pickups.

Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 3:16:37 PM

remember back in 2004 with the 6.0 diesel?
IT WAS A FAILURE
Correct me, but wasn't that engine the #1 in lemon law claims?
another thing? How many times does Ford have to lie to you about gas mileage before you start to see the light?
Maybe you guys ought to vote for Hillary Clinton if you don't believe the lies.
Posted by: Lou_DC | Dec 19, 2015 3:21:26 PM

@Scott
You are wrong, that's why all of that is going to happen, even if you don't like it.
2nd generation 8 speed, Start-Stop, hybrid , automatic air dam, automatic radiator shutters, class leading aero.....
Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 3:31:44 PM

The fake Lou is exactly like Hillary. He cannot win the argument so he changes the topic. Exactly like Hillary. She should not be allowed to run and its a disgrace.

As the real Lou has said, soon the others are going to follow Ford's lead and build their diesels in-house. This is really smart and really works.
Posted by: Dave Z. | Dec 19, 2015 3:37:09 PM

Lou DC is johnny doe aka michigan bob aka tom. Fraudulent posters like BAFO. Ignore them.
Posted by: scott n. | Dec 19, 2015 3:42:13 PM

LAMO, come, DiM, Alex and the other troulling titles you use,
Why do you attempt to belittle people?

IN CAPS FOR A REASON, NOT YELLING. STILL YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG. STILL ONLY ONE LMAO AND THAT IS I. MAYBE ONE DAY YOU WILL GET IT IN YOUR HEAD. NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE YOU THAT HAS TO HAVE MULTIPLE NAMES TO HIDE BEHIND ALONG WITH THE FRIENDS YOU YOUR HEAD.

Does this make you blow in your pants, or what?

NOT REALLY, BUT AGAIN I DO NOT CARE.

The only reason you do this on PUTC is due to the lax security.

NOT THE ONLY REASON, BUT THE REASON I POST AS I DO.

Are you a sociopath? Control and winning is all you are concerned with.

I DO NOT WIN ALL THE TIME BUT I DO HAVE A GOOD TRACK RECORD OF DOING SO. THE PROBLEM HERE IS SOME COMPLETE IGNORANCE PEOPLE POST HERE WITH COMPLETE UNTRUTHS LIKE YOU, JOHNNY WELFARE DOE, ZVEIR. IT WOULD BE MUCH NICER WITHOUT YOU 3 HERE. I HAVE READ POST WAY BEFORE I JOINED AND IT HAS BEEN THE SAME COMPLETE NONSENSE FROM YOU GUYS. A BLOG ALWAYS GETS SIDE TRACT FROM EITHER OF YOU 3 GUYS. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BRAND LOYALTY AND WHAT THE GARBAGE YOU GUYS POST. FYI, NONE OF THESE AUTO COMPANIES ARE LOYAL TO YOU. THEY ARE LOYAL TO MAKING A PROFIT. SOMETHING YOU GUYS SEEM TO NOT UNDERSTAND.

Do you arrive at pleasure by your actions?

ACTUALLY, NOT REALLY. NO EMOTION REALLY. BUT I DO LAUGH A LOT AT SOME OF YOUR POST.

You are a weak human. NOT EVEN CLOSE THERE FAT GIRL FROM OZ. NICE TRY THOUGH.


Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 2:10:24 PM
Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 3:51:41 PM

I will try again.
My 545 RFE Chrysler transmission since 2001 is bulletprof. Not even one problem in Durango with 265,000kms I sold, not even one problem in RAM 1500 Laramie with 165,000kms.
What's your problem ?


Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 2:16:58 PM

Some people have had good luck but as a whole the past transmission coming from Chrysler are very well documented as pure junk. That is why Fiat is sourcing out transmission like ZF and Aisin. Granted Jeep has been using ZF for quite a few years now.
Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 3:54:39 PM

Like the poor FE from the aluminium F-150. This they can't dispute. Worrying about 0-60 times, load and tow, etc are trivial.

Concentrate on consumer perception.


Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 2:25:33 PM

yes because trucks are all about FE and not about load, tow, performance while doing so, and work. Trucks are only for fuel economy. Did I get that right there Fat Girl From Oz?
Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 3:58:16 PM

They already get the best gas powered mpg's according to the Canadian truck results but deliver superior performance while getting the best mpg's. You aren't going to get any better mpg in the ram ecodiesel without going aluminum.... And light weight.

The race to govt mpg mandate isn't going to be achieved by diesel and heavy steel. Ford chose to do the hardest part first. The 2016 f150's are even lighter then the 2015's


Posted by: scott | Dec 19, 2015 2:32:52 PM

Weight really is not going to improve HWY MPG though. You can see an increase in city with lighter weight due to accelerating less mass. And it will give a bigger number for the combined rating. Wind drag is the biggest killer of HWY MPG.
Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 4:01:43 PM

yes because trucks are all about FE and not about load, tow, performance while doing so, and work. Trucks are only for fuel economy. Did I get that right there Fat Girl From Oz?
Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 3:58:16 PM

The bottom line is BARFO knows nothing about trucks, hauling and towing. I don't know why he wastes so much time here. No life and no family I guess. See ya'll later. I have better things to do.
Posted by: Dave Z. | Dec 19, 2015 4:02:28 PM

Ecoboost get the best gas mpg's accord to the csnadian challenge.
Posted by: scott | Dec 19, 2015 4:06:33 PM
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WOW! Crazy stuff man. Sounds like someone needs to get a life.

@LMAO
If that's the only argument you have about stop-start diesel system, I am OK with that.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 5:50:14 PM

You know the sad thing is, is I did not disagree with you on a diesel start stop system. I never said it could not be done. i only questioned the function because you do need to get the pump rotating to generate PSI for the injectors to operate. Then you started spewing a bunch of crap about the engine does not need to move for the pump to work and then the EcoFiat does not have an engine driven pump. Maybe you can slow down to react and read what was said first and then an actual information exchange could have taken place instead of what occurred.

Considering Ford will likely tip this motor towards economy and smoothness it should easily best 30MPG in real world driving. Getting the tranny ECU properly setup will be huge, 10 speeds are fine long as the ECU knows how to use them.

Doesn't make a lot of sense. H.P. is pretty low by today's standards, and FCA is having a hard time unloading diesel Ram 1500's now. The Ecoboost engines are better, why bother with a small diesel?

But i find it hard to see with a HPCR diesel to have start stop and be effective.That starter needs to crank so many revolutions to get the HPFP to get the 5000psi for the starting of the fuel system. Give or take 1000 psi depending on system. Think of the starter draw on the batteries and wear on the starter on a diesel that is 17:1 compression.

Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 4:12:32 PM

I disagree with all of it and it's happening.

^^^^^ Typical uneducated Rambot

@zvier@,
Diesel are the most reliable ICE for stop/start operations. This is because diesel only require fuel and compression, whereas a gasoline engine also requires a source of ignition.

You are correct regarding the start/stop operation of a diesel. It is most likely a quicker start then the gasoline engine.

Just post some argument please with back up.

Diesel are the most reliable ICE for stop/start operations. This is because diesel only require fuel and compression, whereas a gasoline engine also requires a source of ignition.

You are correct regarding the start/stop operation of a diesel. It is most likely a quicker start then the gasoline engine.


Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Dec 19, 2015 7:18:56 PM

Diesels along with gas needs to have both Crank and Cam position to determine engine position for injector firing. Your old school diesels only needed compression and fuel to start. Modern diesels require a little more.

Can you say 2017 Ford F150 3.0 V6 Diesel is again "Truck of the Year".

Some people have had good luck but as a whole the past transmission coming from Chrysler are very well documented as pure junk. That is why Fiat is sourcing out transmission like ZF and Aisin. Granted Jeep has been using ZF for quite a few years now.

Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 3:54:39 PM

That's completely bs. 545 RFE is one of the most reliable on the market for decades.
Just ask any transmission service center, if you don't know too much about transmissions.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:07:50 PM
@Scott
You are wrong, that's why all of that is going to happen, even if you don't like it.
2nd generation 8 speed, Start-Stop, hybrid , automatic air dam, automatic radiator shutters, class leading aero.....

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 3:31:44 PM

I am not going to question about start stop in a diesel because i have only driven gas engine start stop. But i find it hard to see with a HPCR diesel to have start stop and be effective. That starter needs to crank so many revolutions to get the HPFP to get the 5000psi for the starting of the fuel system. Give or take 1000 psi depending on system. Think of the starter draw on the batteries and wear on the starter on a diesel that is 17:1 compression. Automatic shutters are already here and engineers say it does improve HWY MPG. How much, depends on application.


Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 4:12:32 PM
@LMAO
You have no idea how common rail system works. It has separate high pressure pump.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:15:48 PM
I think you'll find a greater take up of diesel light pickups for commercial applications.

I really don't think the 5 or 600 timber getter in the wilds of BC Canada are representative of the greater commercial sector.

There are far more urban pickups used for commercial applications than redneck chainsaw operators using pickups in the wilds of Canada.

Why is it then the larger vans are selling more and more diesels? These vans are also used in areas where the smaller midsizers would be used by business.

Why would you want a 15.6mpg F-150 for a business when you can go out and buy a 26mpg vehicle that will do the same job?

The midsizer is better suited as well in an urban environment when it comes to parking and access.

Seems to me to be a no brainer in buying a diesel, even with the added cost of the diesel. It doesn't take long to make up that 10mpg cost wise.


Posted by: Big Al from Brisbane | Dec 19, 2015 4:16:31 PM
That's completely bs. 545 RFE is one of the most reliable on the market for decades.
Just ask any transmission service center, if you don't know too much about transmissions.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:07:50 PM

been around them for 20 years and still have friends in the transmission business.


Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 4:16:39 PM
@LMAO
You have no idea how common rail system works. It has separate high pressure pump.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:15:48 PM

How is it driven? Here is a hint, off of engine rotation. usually from a gear off the camshaft.


Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 4:17:56 PM
The common rail system
High-pressure pumps

The high-pressure pump compresses the fuel and supplies it in the required quantity. It constantly feeds fuel to the high-pressure reservoir (rail), thereby maintaining the system pressure. The required pressure is available even at low engine speeds, as pressure generation is not linked to the engine speed.

No problem for Start-Stop systems. There are also better systems to start engine than outdated regular starters. Belt driven starter generator , which will be used this year in FCA or Starter -Generator incorporated directly at trany input shaft, like 8 speed ZF is ready from day 1.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:27:08 PM
The high-pressure pump compresses the fuel and supplies it in the required quantity. It constantly feeds fuel to the high-pressure reservoir (rail), thereby maintaining the system pressure. The required pressure is available even at low engine speeds, as pressure generation is not linked to the engine speed.

No problem for Start-Stop systems. There are also better systems to start engine than outdated regular starters. Belt driven starter generator , which will be used this year in FCA or Starter -Generator incorporated directly at trany input shaft, like 8 speed ZF is ready from day 1.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:27:08 PM

This shows your ignorance with HPCR systems. The pump is connected to the engine. Fuel pressure is not a direct relationship to engine speed because of the High Pressure Fuel Regulator. The regulator is used to allow the exact amount of pressure for the fuel required by the engine. This is an electrical component.

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/an-inside-look-at-the-ram-1500-3-0l-ecodiesel/

In addition to the high injection rate, the engine uses a Bosch high pressure fuel pump that is able to maintain 2,000 bar (roughly 29,000psi) in both fuel rails. The pump is driven off of the exhaust camshaft via a gear to gear mesh. The pump is mounted to the front cover on the passenger’s side (right side) and is a twin pump style much like the Duramax and 6.7 Power Stroke.

Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 4:39:57 PM
So what. It will start instantly. That pressure from rail doesn't dissappear in 2 minutes waiting on the red light, not even overnight.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:45:48 PM
So what. It will start instantly. That pressure from rail doesn't dissappear in 2 minutes waiting on the red light, not even overnight.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:45:48 PM

Actually there is pressure drop. It is not instant but it does drop. It bleeds back through the pump and past the regulator.


Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 4:56:46 PM
@LMAO
You have no idea how common rail system works. It has separate high pressure pump.

Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:15:48 PM

So yes i have a very good idea on how HPCR works. It appears that you do not.


Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 4:58:05 PM
After Nissan swept the Texas truck awards Ford ,GM Toyota
are all going to follow Nissan.
it is inevitable as it stands the Titan xD is the brute of the 1/2 ton class . Any claims that a f150 can tow as much is laughable.
Bring forth the 1/2 ton trucks with 6.5 bed 4x4 and crew cab
the Titan XD will knock them all back.
The big companies GM Nissan Toyota and perhaps Volkswagen eventually are the ones to watch .


Posted by: Dave | Dec 19, 2015 4:58:55 PM
So what. It will start instantly.
Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 4:45:48 PM

There is not instant start. The crankshaft still needs to turn with the camshaft to get both crank and cam profile for engine position for the start and for fuel timing. Several rotations need to occur to pick up this profile.


Posted by: LMAO | Dec 19, 2015 5:00:06 PM
@LMAO
Doesn’t matter. Engine will start sooner, than you switch your foot from brake to gas pedal.


Posted by: zvier@ | Dec 19, 2015 5:09:14 PM

Big Al from OZ

I think you are wrong, at least I REALLY hope so. Pickups in the USA have been leading the inflationary charge for at least the last 5 years. That may soon change. When Ford killed the Ranger rather than redesign it, it wasn't for lack of demand. Remember that they were selling what was substantially a 22 year old pickup with a few cosmetic tweaks. Even as aged as it was they sold more than 77000 of them the last year that they were made, and could have sold more if production had not been halted. Fords reasoning was that there was not enough of a cost advantage between the Ranger and the f-150. It was/is all about profit, in-and-done.
MSRP of a 2008 F150 4x4 XLT crew cab 6.5ft bed with a 5.4l gas engine was $23,350. I paid a somewhat less. Keep in mind this was the fall of 2007, BEFORE the economic meltdown that stuck down the US economy. I just went through the build and price for the same vehicle as close as i could to that one. "drumroll"


$45,160


45160-23350=21810/23350=0.9340x100= +93.40%/8=11.68% inflation, ANNUALLY!
And this at during a period where the Gov. Accounting Office is publicly stating inflation is running a "less than two %" Can you say 'male bovine fecal matter'?
I think that you are wrong (hope?) because the infamous 'chicken tax' is slated to "go away" in 2015, phase out will be over two years, so by the end of 2016? Seeing as how it no longer serves it's stated purpose that will be a good thing. I am hopeful that consumers in the US will now have access to the numerous small/midsize pickups the rest of the world has enjoyed all along. Right now we have access to three, four depending upon your veiwpoint. Toyota, Nissan, and the Canyon, Colorado twins. How many choices do you have in OZ ? Manufacturers will not be able to keep ramming these kind of price increases down our throats if there were more competition.
Most people who read this site for it's intended purpose understand that a heck of a lot of suburbanites don't need or even want a full size pickup. But the choices have been slim for the last 25 years. This has also led to the 'shrinking bed' It is now impossible to get an 8' bed in a half ton unless you settle for a 2-3 person regular cab. Why? Because, they "won't fit in the garage". {You mean you park a pickup INSIDE??????????? Doesn't the smell of the grease-gas-oil-manure-compose-blood-dead-animals get inside your house? Oh, thats right, you don't USE it as a pickup, you think you bought a car.} Ford sure fooled you.

What are the chances that Ford and Gm will continue to sell upwards of half a million 1/2 ton pickups when there are a half dozen midsize,( and hopefully a few small, remember the ford courier, the chevy luv, the Izuzu Rodeo? the 50mpg VW rabbit? I would like to forget the Dodge Ram 50.) pickups. Here is a thought,

http://www.oldparkedcars.com/2012/05/1980-toyota-hilux-5-speed-diesel.html

Cheap to buy, cheap to own, run forever. Get some decent competition and Ford won't be able to continue jacking the price, they will be hard pressed to continue selling over 300,000 1/2 tons/year. Serves them right.
I do NOT believe this will have much, if any, impact upon 3/4 or 1 ton sales. There is just too little crossover there.

An overabundance of greed kills. Didn't they learn anything? I mean besides how to beg?

@Ty
I absolutely agree with you and stated many times, that full size truck pricing is out of control, because people are stupid enough to pay $1000 /month for leasing just to drive aluminium wonder.
What happened to just $350 extra for aluminium ford was telling us about ? People has no memory and ford was counting on it. They deserve to be ripped off.
I paid $C 33 000 for fully loaded 1 year preowned Laramie. I could still sell it today for same money ,what I paid 4 years ago.

I am not buying new truck. I will get most of it's life . At least 4 more years to go. I refuse to be a slave. Some of you are going to be on third one already and I don't care. It's just stupid truck .

Warazawanga,
I would like to know when Ford will announce the return of the Ranger.

Ford testing new US Ranger versus Colorado?
Will the Ranger make a US return? Sure looks like it.
John Goreham
Contributing Writer, GM-Trucks.com
12/15/2015

Let's all agree to be honest about a few things. First, as we say here in New England "Nothing on the level." That is a quote made popular by Howie Carr, a famous Boston corruption reporter. So when we read that international media were invited to a Ford Australia meeting during which Ford accidentally showed the press a new Ranger testing alongside the Tacoma (a North-American product, Hilux is the international model) and the Colorado, we are not as surprised as we might be. It could be an accident, a misunderstanding, or Ford might have staged it. Who cares, really? A new Ranger would be cool. I have friends nursing their current Ranger and saying a prayer each night that it will come back to market before theirs dies completely.

Let's also face the truth that the reason GM and Toyota sell-out their mid-size trucks each month may not be an accident. Perhaps they both know that Ford will return to the U.S. market and that is the reason two of the globe's largest and most capable automakers have not expanded their factories to meet the demand. Factories and workers are very difficult to downsize. Sold-out trucks is not a bad thing.

Last, although we root for GM here, imagine an aluminum Ford Ranger with the 2.7-liter Ecoboost. It gives me the shivers in a good way. How about you?

I hope ford brings a diesel option to the f150 however, I hope it's south of the reported 254hp/440Tq.

A few months ago when I was in the States my mother had a slight accident with her Focus. The body shop we went to have known my family for years and went to high school with my step brother.

I asked him about the new aluminium F-150s and what was required for him as a body shop owner to provide.

He stated the up front initial cost was $50 000. As he said the first 50 aluminium F-150 accidents will cost $1 000 straight off prior to any work being carried out.

He also stated that he had to employ an additional worker to make up for the several months worth of training each person is required to undertake to effect the aluminium repairs.

He had to change his work shop. A dedicated aluminium area was required to work on the damaged F-150s as well.

All of this cost money, plus the added training etc.

I asked how more will a aluminium F-150 repair cost. He stated at a minimum twice as much, but more than likely three times as much to cover his investment.

I asked him how many F-150 have gone through his doors in the past 7 months, figuring he would of had at least one. He said none.

He said he was hoping aluminium F-150 business improves or he has wasted a lot of resources, which is cost and this will passed onto all vehicles that go through his shop.

So, how good is aluminium?

This doesn't take into account the poorer ride quality, poor FE etc.

Ford need this diesel to help improve FE.

Yeah...Ford and mpg lol....

Didn't they say the Eco Boost would get 25-30 mpg..I remember like it was yesterday,meanwhile a 6.2 GM is the same,a HEMI and 5.3 are better than the lighter eco Boost Furds..

So,a Lion...roar..roar..roar..lol...Probably will get about the same as a RAM diesel,but the Lion will be more costly to maintain,as its a Land Rover engine from India !!

The Ranger is dead and not coming back. If Ford brings a mid size to the US they need to get a different name for it, like Bronco or Sport Trac.

A commenter incorrectly stated in a recent post that Ranger sold well in its last years--WRONG. It died during its last years despite the investment Ford made in upgrading the chassis, adding 4 wheel discs and a five sp auto. They could not give them away. Ditto for the previous generation Sport Tracs.

Bury the Ranger next to the S10 and the Dakota and let them rest in peace.

If ford re-enters the mid-size truck space in North america, it will be given a F-series designation . My best guess F-100. This way they can loop the sales in with the other F- series monthly and yearly totals. Ford will pull every trick they can to maintain that 'best selling truck, lie that they pull over their fanboys. After all, if it wasn't for their fanboys, who would buy that junk.

The Ranger is coming back and was announced for 2018.

Ranger did outsell your precious Colorado more than double in its closing years.

They don't need to name it the sport trac. Stop with your GMC stupdity.

Ford doesn't need to name it F-100 and even if they did they wouldn't include it in F-Series total. It would go separately like the F-650 and up medium duties.

@zvier , not exactly sure where your getting your numbers on pricing difference between the previous f150 and the 2015 f150 but my company purchased the base 2015 xl model reg cab 2wd for 26 k and a 2013 they had purchased (also the base xl model regular cab 2wd) for 25 k. Not a real big difference there in price and my 2015 even has a few bells and whisltes that the 2013 does not(grille shutters, interior led head lamp, outside temp gauge, aux input) stuff of that nature. Might be a bigger diff in higher end models but that also comes with the options you include. Myself, i dont need all the fancy lane keeping system or 360° camera, but someone will want it. And for your laramie, the only way u will get your money back is if you sell to fiat for all those recalls!

@Mike:
Wow, your defending of Ford is admirable. You must work for ford to have such privileged information. Please explain what "F - series " means to you. Take you time and think about, I mean really think about F-series.

@ gmsrgreat, prbly all the industry leaders who have been and keep buying them to keep there companies on top. Thats who buys them and would still buy them. And the whole " there cheaper to buy " mcdonalds argument adds absolutley zero face value, if you want your company to succeed, you need that vehicle on the road, as much as it can be for as long as it can be. Costs in down time and maintainance is what they look at. FE is usually a factor as well.

And to try and put this back on the original topic, im all game for a smaller displacement turbo diesel. Prbly will lack the get up and go like the ram half ton diesel but its performing well for them . trucks arent meant to be fast anyhow.

Let's go back to basics.

#1 More and more people not needing a truck are buying them.
#2 Ford is trying to have it both ways trying to find a balance to please both the people that use a truck for heavy hauling-towing and for those using it as a SUV.
#3 Since 2009 the F-150 has lost it's toughness then in 2011 it lost its power and performance with the eco-boost, aka a car engine in a truck.
#4 The eco-boost has been a failure where 2 to 1 new F-150's sold were the NON eco-boost engine.

Now Ford thinks a new diesel is going to save the day?
Ford needs to scrap the eco-boost and bring back the reliable 5.4 Triton and use engine deactivation to improve fuel mileage.

It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant people that post on here are. Research things before you post. It's easy.

@LMAO, it's not just FCA that licenses ZF transmissions. Ford's 6R is also a ZF licensed transmission for the F150. So you can't claim Ford is superior in that regard.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_6R_transmission



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