They don't even have their 6 speed sorted out.

The mpg ratings will not improve much, Ford already runs 3,15 and 3.31 for 2 and 4 wheel drive, for the sake of mileage.

People will not like the transmission getting that busy, and if you thought Chrysler had a hard time programming a 9-speed, lol, Ford!

It'll help someone towing, but the way Ford tells us about their EcoBoost with their propaganda and how they can hold RPMs, we shouldn't need it right?

Military grade propaganda.

This is nice, when Ford has to recall this transmission for some problem it'll be a GM/Ford joint recall.

"create or retain 500 jobs ... create or retain another 150 jobs" that's good corporate press spin. SO in reality it may have created no jobs, just retained the current positions.

And unless you want an throw your money away on an outdated F-150, wait until the 10 speeds drop in 2018 or 2019 so your not over paying for that "old" 6 speed.

Sooo the transmission that will be in the vaunted ZR1, will also find a home in Ford Trucks. Never though that would ever happen. I hope this works.. For both and the betterment of True American engineering and manufacturing

One more thing.... This tranny must be designed well. The ZL1 is a hp/torque monster

Sooo the transmission that will be in the vaunted ZR1, will also find a home in Ford Trucks. Never though that would ever happen. I hope this works.. For both and the betterment of True American engineering and manufacturing

Posted by: Grnzel1 | Apr 28, 2016 8:31:42 AM

Ford and GM vehicles been sharing the 6 speed front drive transmission for almost 10 years now. Nothing new with how everyone works with one another now. When you get two leaders in the automotive world together it just creates a great product for the customer. Why do you think fiat is trying merge with someone so desperately. They have no quality product and are trying to pawn off their garbage to someone else. The world market is much smarter than that though.

@LMAO
Sooo Fiat can't merge and has to build 9 speed and 8 speed factory by themselves, but GM and Ford can merge no problemo ?
Double standard you have bro.

No turdrammer, Fiat wants to dump their crap products and liability on another car company. Ford and GM are looking to merge again on just a single vehicle component. Ford and GM will build their own iname their own factories. Ford and GM are sharing the design, not manufacturering. Just like the FWD 6 speeds.

It should result in less fuel consumption and smoother shifting. What more advantages may consumers get?

Brace yourselves for 1 more ish MPG and bragging rights about having 10 speeds.

But hey everyone knocks Ford for only having 6 speeds now when more really haven't made much difference. It seems like a crazy game of one-upmanship and large investment for not a lot of pay off. I wasn't impressed at all with the jump from 6 to 8spds...

I think a lot more could be gained with a split rear end option. There has to be reasons everyone would rather cram more gears into every increasingly larger and more complex trannys than double the capabilities with a rear.

I 'm not sure how the author missed this, but its fairly well know that the 9 speed is GM lead, 50% Ford funded transverse mounted unit meant for Cars and SUVs.

The 10 speed, is a Ford lead, GM 50% funded project. The 10R80? is expected to have the same torque rating as the current 6 speed it replaces.

The current F150 6R80 transmissions s essentially a re-badged ZF 6HP26 6 speed automatic transmission and has a designed maximum input torque of 590lbs

The current super duty transmission is the 6R140 which has a maximum input torque of 1030lbs, in addition to features like PTO and a 150k mile service interval. As I understand it, Ford can beef up this transmission to handle near 1200lbs of input torque if needed.

The outcome of the deals between GM and Ford result in Ford having access to the 10 speed 12 months in advance of GM having access to the core design.

On the opposite side, the core of the GM designed 9 speed will be passed over to Ford within 12 months of completion.

Both versions will have near identical guts, the casing, electronics and programming may be different.

GM developed the 8 speed knowing that Ford will have a lighter truck with a 10 speed and did not want to have a large competitive gap between products for 4 years, they could also justify the design costs by making the 8 speed exclusive to Cadillac and scaling volume and availability across their product lines when it was fiscally justifiable.

The joint GM-Ford 9 speed automatic, is for transverse engines.
That means NOT the SuperDuty pickup trucks.

Gaining over 20% more ratio spread over the ZF 6hp derived transmission is huge for performance, smoothness, and mileage.

I see Ford using this 10 speed automatic in all the 4x4 F150s for 2017; and Ford will retain the 6 speed auto for 4x2 F150s, at least for the '17 model year.

With this new 10 speed, Ford will be the new #1 Fuel Mileage King for 2017.

Clint,

If you don't believe that there is a very noticable difference in a 4 speed truck verses a 6 speed one.... well I 'm speechless.

6 to 8 was less noticeable in high power to weigh vehicles... Like anything with a GM 6.0 liter or the Hemi 5.7 or 6.4?

On the GM 5.3 and Grand Cherokee 3.7 the change from 6 to 8 is like night and day. The Grand Cherokee sucks with the 6 speed, as it has to downshift to 3K+ every hill. That just doesn't happen with the 8 speed.

There is a point of diminishing returns around offering more gears that occurs around 8-10 gears. ZF, Getrag, BorgWarner, Ford and GM all agree on that.

There are also intangibles to consider like maintenance, shift quality and shifting at the proper time.

The GM 8 speed is a good example of this. It's shifting behavior is so much significantly better then the older GM 6 speed that its like taking a trip into a time machine 20 years into the future. The RAM torquflight transmissions don't appear to be that much smarter, but in the underpowered/smaller engine applications the benefit is obvious.

I could be wrong but I'll bet that the same thing occurs if you towing something heavy. Performance is better as the ratio spread is smaller.

But please consider another hidden motivator. CAFE regulations. Currently they offer trucks with optional ring gears. With these new transmissions you can build a truck with max towing capability and max fuel economy. Its like having 4:10 ring gear for towing and 3:55 for highway. Only you're now doing all that inside the transmission.

Just some food for thought...

Where is GMSRGREAT when you need him? This will get him going, maybe Ford can share the round wheel wells with GM...lol

My wife's traverse and ford share the same trans. Only thing that is different is each company has its own specks for how it is built. GM apparently went cheap on the wave plate (think he said the metal used was not heat treated or something). Tech told me if I ever had a problem GM would take care of it. No problem yet but still keeping fingers crossed.

My wife's traverse and ford share the same trans. Only thing that is different is each company has its own specks for how it is built. GM apparently went cheap on the wave plate (think he said the metal used was not heat treated or something). Tech told me if I ever had a problem GM would take care of it. No problem yet but still keeping fingers crossed.

Posted by: heyyouguys | Apr 28, 2016 9:54:43 AM

That's was not the case with my buddies Acadia. The wave plate went out and took most of the transmission with it. Barely out of warranty. No help from GM at all. His checking account took care of it.

That's was not the case with my buddies Acadia. The wave plate went out and took most of the transmission with it. Barely out of warranty. No help from GM at all. His checking account took care of it.

That's why im keeping my fingers crossed. But I did read somewhere that GM will fully cover the repair if the plate failed, extended warranty for 10 years 120,000 miles, Have your friend look it up don't know maybe he can be reimbursed some $.

"extended warranty for 10 years 120,000 miles"

Sounds like a Guaranteed POS to me.

SMH...

That's why im keeping my fingers crossed. But I did read somewhere that GM will fully cover the repair if the plate failed, extended warranty for 10 years 120,000 miles, Have your friend look it up don't know maybe he can be reimbursed some $.

Posted by: heyyouguys | Apr 28, 2016 10:25:45 AM

Thanks, I will have him check. I did talk to the GM dealer I use all the time and they were going to cut him a good deal on the rebuild because it is a well known issue and I do a lot of business with them.. But since then GM may have come up with an assistance plan. I believe it was only one plate, the reverse clutch plate that is the problem.

Ford at first went cheap on a valve body valve in the mid sized 6 speed. But they did issue a recall for it. But those are the only 2 issues I know about with both variations of transmissions. They are rock solid.

extended warranty for 10 years 120,000 miles"

Sounds like a Guaranteed POS to me.

SMH...

Posted by: Frank | Apr 28, 2016 10:44:42 AM

It is better than nothing though. I would be ok with that.

More pro-Ford site again...

2 recalls and yet they respond with pro-Ford stuff!

They cannot make a normal tranny right, now a 10-speed?

I sure hope ford uses the gm spec speed sensors in the 10 speed to prevent the unwanted downshifts.

GM is going to build the 9 speed for yous Superduty type. Yous some lucky, no more tranny failures, about time.

Good thing GM did all the engineering for them LMAO!!!!

US20080300092 * 4 Jun 2007 4 Dec 2008 Gm Global Technology Operations, Inc. 10-Speed Transmission

US20090036253 * 31 Jul 2007 5 Feb 2009 Gm Global Technology Operations, Inc. 10-Speed Transmission

US8007398 * 25 Aug 2008 30 Aug 2011 GM Global Technology Operations LLC Multi-speed transmission having at least ten speed ratios

US8047951 * 17 Oct 2008 1 Nov 2011 GM Global Technology Operations LLC Ten-speed transmission

US20090192010 * 17 Oct 2008 30 Jul 2009 Gm Global Technology Operations, Inc. Ten-speed transmission

US20090118062 * 25 Aug 2008 7 May 2009 Gm Global Technology Operations, Inc. Multi-speed transmission having at least ten speed ratios

http://www.google.co.in/patents/US7651431

Now who is really building the 10 speed transmission? Oh that's right GM is, Nice try Ford clowns.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/09/spied-new-ford-exits-gm-proving-grounds.html

@Lou,

One of oxi's trucks had the tranny replaced and work done.

I've never had tranny problems in any of my trucks.

Look at the GM Dolts trying to claim there Daddy did all the engineering, GROW UP BOYS.

FORD IS THE ONLY LEADER.

Ford makes more profit than GM 1Q 2016 WITH LESS MODEL TRUCKS/CARS.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/04/28/ford-profit-earnings-financial-first-quarter-results/

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2016/04/21/gm-earnings/83325972/

Ford, the only leader here.

RAM... GM didn't take over Ford, and Ford didn't take over GM. GM didn't merge with Ford and Ford didn't merge with GM. The Federal government didn't fund GM taking over Ford (just GM suriving) and didn't fund Ford taking over GM (Ford doesn't go bankrupt)...

GM and Ford engaged in a joint venture / project. It didn't change ownership of either company and has limited interaction and 0 influence on either company's leadership makup/philosophy and so on.

Chrysler has been an ill red headed step child since just prior to its merger with Benz. It has since hoped into bed on 2 following occasions with different partners each time being a lessor valued company than before until the last time when the US federal government effectively had to bribe/insure from loss a foreign company to take over. Its slightly more embarrassing than GM's failure in that Chryslers has been going on for decades now (and seems posed for another round), has been repetitive in nature, involved foreign take over, all on top of bankruptcy/bail out like GM.

Mackintire

Some good points.

CAFE always plays into things.

I avoided 4 spd trannys like the plague they were in trucks. No one built a really good one and the E4OD was a legendary POS and I worked at a Chrysler dealer and saw 4spd auto tranny 1 after another fail. I currently have a 5spd auto (first auto ive owned as I prefer manuals) and I don't see all the buzz.

I believe that shifting profiles have largely improved not because of more speeds but better electronic controls. The truth is its probably a bit of both.

I don't have any personal experience with the 6 to 8s just that it seemed like a lot of work to go up 1 mpg. I totally agree that at some point the law of diminishing returns must come into play. Maybe 10 is it.

There must be intangible issue with enhancing the rear im not seeing but there have been some oddball cars with split rears and most every semi/dump truck has them. The thought of turning a stout 6 spd auto into effectively a 12spd with a split rear seems like it would trump all the 8 to 10 speed autos in the world and with closer ratios for better shifting profiles and bigger gains in mileage.

I've been hearing about this 10 speed for at least 4 years and they just announced the billions spending. It's nothing I would consider, just saying.
Ford customers pay for that.

Ford customers pay for that.

Posted by: RAM | Apr 28, 2016 12:05:49 PM

Yes, they do pay for quality, which is something you pay for but don't get it with a RAM. You just get RAMMED.

Wonder if ford will just build gm's 10 speed and gm build ford a 9 speed. Or if the manufactures will build there own lines for each transmission. With this upgrade of 1.6 billion is to be able to build enough transmissions for gm as well?

On a side note ford released the quarterly financial and they completely dominated all other manufactures on profits. This 1.6 billion is a drop in the bucket for ford currently.

Also was announced ford and google established a partnership!

@Frank
You mean that quality 6 speed Ford recalled recently? I can leave with that.

I should say, I can leave without that.

More pro-Ford site again...

2 recalls and yet they respond with pro-Ford stuff!

They cannot make a normal tranny right, now a 10-speed?
Posted by: ooxxii | Apr 28, 2016 11:09:38 AM

-------

LOL, oxi, like you should talk. Here's some more stuff. (Lou, Check this out, too. You'll get a kick out of it.)

04-01-2011, 12:36 AM
oxi
Banned

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacoFriendly View Post
Well I never thought this would happen to my Toyota but...

Quote:Sometimes when I shift into third, I grind. Other times it doesn't. What gives? For some reason I have been able to hear the throw out bearing since I bought it new... Is this grinding a clutch deal or worse?? Is there a heavy duty replacement for these 6 speed manual transmissions and also what is the best clutch/flywheel replacement?
You have a bad synchro, or should I say a cracked brass ring going into 3rd gear!!!

I had a 2005 X-Runner that I auto-x'd and ran on road courses and it would grind into 3rd and 5th. I convinced the stealership to replace it under warrenty and they did. Sweet deal for me!!!

http://www.ttora.com/forum/157-late-tacoma-tech/93379-6-speed-grinding-54-000-miles-2.html

Mackintire,
"The outcome of the deals between GM and Ford result in Ford having access to the 10 speed 12 months in advance of GM having access to the core design."

I don't think GM is waiting to release the Camaro ZL1 12 months after the Raptor comes out.

RAM - FCA did not engineer the 8 and 9 speed transmissions. They are built under licence from ZF.

Another site had an engineer (neutral to the car companies) explain how the 8 and 9 speed worked and more recently explained the 10 speed.

He felt that the GM/Ford design had some advantages to the 8 speed.

@Frank
You mean that quality 6 speed Ford recalled recently? I can leave with that.

Posted by: RAM | Apr 28, 2016 12:21:31 PM

GM built it, just ask Johnny dildoe, he claims GM engineers the transmissions.

Blame General Motors.

@Frank
You mean that quality 6 speed Ford recalled recently? I can leave with that.

Posted by: RAM | Apr 28, 2016 12:21:31 PM

GM built it, just ask Johnny dildoe, he claims GM engineers the transmissions.

Blame General Motors.

I don't think GM is waiting to release the Camaro ZL1 12 months after the Raptor comes out.

Which is why it won't have the 10 speed until 2019 or later.

The partnership is for the IP design...not the casing, electronics or anything else.. Just the internal mechanicals and the shared knowledge on basic parameters. Ford does not make GM's transmisssions and GM does not make Fords. The joint venture just covers the R&D portion of the projects.

@Loubc
He can feel what ever he wants to.
545RFE is Designed and build by Chrysler , never recalled.
Still works great in my Durango and RAM.

Didn't Trump say that he would build a fence and make Mexico pay for it? Isn't that what GM just did to Ford. LOL!

@Loubc
There are differences in design between ZF and 8 speed FCA produces. It not exactly same trany.

Donald Trump, biggest coward in the world, this guy faked an injury to avoid going to WAR>

What a Pooosie!!!

Donald Trump, biggest coward in the world, this guy faked an injury to avoid going to WAR>

What a Pooosie!!!

@Frank
You can blame each other. I don't care. FCA has 8 speed and no recalls yet.

FCA dosen't even built that Transmission.

FCA also does not build the HD Cummins Diesel either. In case you wanted to say they did, you know I have to remind you because you're just deliberately obtuse.

FCA build 8 speed without any recalls yet.

You people are funny. When old Jeep was recalled, because it met all the safety standards, when introduced, but failed when high speed rear ended, you were all talking, that FCA is responsible. When FCA buys 8 speed or Cummins to their final product, you say, it's not their business.
Noone forbid ford to buy Cummins (they did), noone forbid ford to buy ZF or better output sensor.
Ford is responsible for final product and for all the recalls.
FCA is responsible for 8 speed and Cummins. No recalls yet.
Eat your own medicine.