Spied: 2018 Ram Midsize 'Crossover' Pickup

Ram i-829TZ9T-XL II

There's quite a bit of buzz about which major automaker will be next to enter the growing midsize pickup truck segment. Many pundits are betting on Ford to announce something as soon as next year; meanwhile our spy shooters have seen modified, disguised Fiat Toros driving around Michigan for a few months. We're sharing the latest camouflaged vehicle our photographers have captured. This is what they had to say:

"We caught a disguised midsize pickup leaving the Fiat Chrysler Automobiles' headquarters in Auburn Hills, Mich. It raises new questions about the timing of a pickup truck for Dodge or Ram.

"Underneath all that camouflage is the Fiat Toro pickup - reportedly based on a lengthened version of the Jeep Renegade. As if on cue, the disguised truck was seen on public roads accompanied by a Jeep Renegade support vehicle. The Toro looks to be more than 2 feet longer than the Renegade, making it a vehicle much more useful than the Renegade from a utility point of view.

"It's likely that FCA product planners are looking for a way to leverage the automaker's global platforms in a way to launch something well below the full-size Ram pickups to broaden its U.S. product portfolio. The disguised truck running in Auburn Hills is certainly interesting, but is it too small? As is, this new pickup would be smaller than the midsize Chevrolet Colorado, Honda Ridgeline or Toyota Tacoma.

"What we have here is a smaller, truck-flavored 'crossover' pickup that might be able to come to market at a lower price, get better fuel economy than the bigger, heavier ladder-frame pickups and still deliver some pickup capabilities. Like the Hyundai Santa Cruz concept, this could be the start of a new segment in the U.S. market. Whatever the case, there are some curious-looking camouflaged trucks prowling around the FCA Technology Center these days."

We'll be on the lookout for more prototypes and will provide more details as they become available. Stay tuned.

KGP Photography images

 

Ram i-fvM2Ccs-XL II

Ram i-ttnRt5K-XL II

Ram i-zWDfqT6-XL II

Ram i-8BKVg8F-XL II

 

 

Comments

Maybe I missed reading all the comments,,,, but I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU GUYS MISSED IT!

THE REAR DOORS!
yea, they open from the rear, the latch is in the back, hinges in the front

@canadianthoughts
You were bashing Jeep for 50 death people and that Jeep was made, when only US engineers were involved, not Fiat.
Are you mad, that ford doesn't have any dog in this fight?
Ford still waits for 10 speed , FCA has 8 speed and 9 speed for few years already.
Ford is testing diesel, FCA has diesel for few years already. Enjoy your ford and leave this discussion to some matured people. It's clearly over your head to bring anything to this topic.

Ford works alright! Not only does Ford build POS, they paid $199,950 -- $55,000 more than the sticker price -- to buy one of the first sport utility vehicles made by Tesla so it could test and examine the electric SUV....lol

They can’t even steal technology economically!

http://www.autoworldnews.com/articles/17140/20160421/ford-threatened-tesla-model-3-spent-200-000-know-s.htm

Ford works lol....don't you just love those Canadians!

Idiots!

It’s sold in more than 180 markets, making it one of the farthest reaching Ford products in the world.
Posted by: canadianthoughts | Apr 21, 2016 8:08:30 PM

That may be true moron, but it's not sold in the US and really that all that counts.

Ford ran way like little girls....hahahahahaha

Maybe they can pay $55,000 more than the sticker price for one of these Fiats and build one in Mexico like they do with the rest of there fleet....lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqomZQMZQCQ

More quintessential proof that the One Ford works. It’s always a gamble for an automaker to try new things. When that gamble fails it usually results in a big loss. Car companies will normally man up and take some responsibility, but not always.

In 2012 Ford released a lemon, the Focus, and one option was Ford's PowerShift dual-clutch semi-automatic transmission. The models of Fiesta and Focus from 2011/2012-2015 respectively were infected with a horrible issue where the transmission would shudder while going from first to second gear, with the issue sometimes continuing into third gear.

This has caused consumers who have purchased a Fiesta from 2011-2015, or Focus from 2012- 2015 (with the PowerShift transmission) to file lawsuits and in some cases create petitions, one of which has over 2,000 signatures. The transmission is covered under a warranty, and Ford must have had some idea of what was going on. After all, the warranties were extended a few times up to seven years. However, many customers say bringing the car in to fix the transmission does not solve the problem. Customers have reported leaving dealerships after service with the problem still present.

Yeah quintessential proof that the One Ford works!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLVptjRmLoM

lol

@canadianthoughts

FCA has own factory for 8speed, for few years already.

http://www.canadianmanufacturing.com/operations/fca-investing-us266m-plant-makes-8-speed-gearbox-144096/

FCA has own factory for 9 speed for few years already.

Chrysler is building the transmissions in two plants in Indiana (Kokomo and Tipton), thanks to over $843 million in plant investments and licensing from ZF.

http://www.carscoops.com/2014/05/chrysler-starts-building-9-speed.html

Ford doesn't sell 10 speed yet.

Ford doesn't sell a small diesel, but will follow RAM soon, because "diesel doesn't make sense". LOL

Those are the facts bro.


Lmfao!!! A lawnmower!!! Err I mean I fiat...err ram. What a joke.

@canadianthoughts

Ford will this... Ford will that.... Ford will soon...LOL.

Stop talking about this silly 105 million dollar fines. It's unfortunate, but nothing critical. Dieselgate will cost VW 20 Billions and you say they do better than FCA ?
You are pathetic loser and village idiot.

Fiat Auto: The Italian Giant in Trouble


http://www.icmrindia.org/casestudies/catalogue/Business%20Strategy1/BSTR050.htm

... financial results, ... FCA 2015 Full Year Results ... the forward-looking statements prove to be incorrect the actual results of Fiat Chrysler are buried in questionable practices and severe bottleneck is on the horizon for shareholders and investors.


Posted by: canadianthoughts | Apr 21, 2016 10:05:54 PM

Your link is from 2003. You are still village idiot.

Looks like they stole the tooling from Pontiac Aztek and cut the back off to make a pickup.

Fiat Auto: The Italian Giant in Trouble


http://www.icmrindia.org/casestudies/catalogue/Business%20Strategy1/BSTR050.htm

... financial results, ... FCA 2015 Full Year Results ... the forward-looking statements prove to be incorrect the actual results of Fiat Chrysler are buried in questionable practices and severe bottleneck is on the horizon for shareholders and investors.


Posted by: canadianthoughts | Apr 21, 2016 10:05:54 PM

Period : 1990 - 2003
Organization : Fiat Auto
Pub Date : 2003


Your link is from 2003. You are still village idiot.

They could REALLY mess with people by slapping KK Cherokee skin on the front of that- looks to be the same family.
As long as the market integration investment isn't too high, this should be a success for FCA, even if they don't move 100k units a year. Assembly would be the tough part, but they could probably build it along the KK in Toledo, with unique parts shipped up from South America.

FCA has 8 speed and 9 speed for few years already.
Ford is testing diesel, FCA has diesel for few years already. Enjoy your ford and leave this discussion to some matured people. It's clearly over your head to bring anything to this topic.

Posted by: RAM | Apr 21, 2016 6:27:21 PM

How's the 9 speed doing on your jeep zvier? Are you on your 3rd one in a year now? I still laugh at your comment on how it was so great the dealer replaced your transmissions for free under warranty. You are such a tool and blinded by your complete ignorance. Have a great day picking up everyone's garbage at the street Mr sanitation engineer.

Upon farther reading- the Toro already comes with the "trailhawk" 9 speed couple with a 2L Mulijet. That's a seriously cool bag of tricks.

"How's the 9 speed doing on your jeep zvier?"
Posted by: LMAO | Apr 22, 2016 5:53:37 AM

"Canadianbonehead" and "LMAO also known as Cher" are worried about Fiat transmissions, yet their miltary grade Mexican manufacturer Ford is going a great job on transmissions....lol

http://www.wtae.com/investigations/investigation-finds-hundreds-of-complaints-about-ford-transmissions/24333878

http://www.law360.com/articles/634914/ford-sued-over-faulty-transmissions-in-fiestas-focuses

Hows that PowerShit dual clutch transmission doing?

Man I do love that wet back that post the same 4 things over and over again. Least it is easy for her to find her hotline. What a loser.

Hows that PowerShit dual clutch transmission doing?


Posted by: Ford orgullosa de ser mexicana | Apr 22, 2016 6:15:35 AM

Better than the ZF 9 speed. At least Ford is giving customers an extended warranty on the issue. Fiat customers, we'll they get screwed again. Grow up loser.

The good news is that Fiat brought out the purchased 9 speed first. LMAO.

@LMAO
It's been almost a year since they replace it and not even one issue, non, zero, nada. Shifting and working great. FCA solved this problem and there is no any issue with this transmission anymore.
Waiting for 10 speed mapping , shifting and quality issues. It will be nightmare to make this transmission shifting properly. FCA 9 speed has hundreds of different mappings. 10 speed will have thousand. Good luck. No wonder it's still just vaporway in your dream pipe. I will personally test this 10 speed when on the market. Specially downshifting from cruising to passing to see how quickly it will shift from 8th gear to 3rd.
9 speed shifts to 9th gear when going over 125km/h ~ 75mph.
I want to know, how much will you gain with 10 speed compare to 8 speed and 9 speed. ZF doesn't plan to go to 10 speed, because they say, that it's not worth the trouble and no any advantage, because of more internal loose. 10 speed will be heavier, have more friction, mapping problems.

FCA has already second generation of 8 speed, which will compete with future 10 speed when build.


The second generation ZF 8HP automatic was first used in the BMW 520d. “Comprehensive” changes have lower drag torque, a higher gear spread (distance between first and eighth), and lower vibration.

The changes, which increase efficiency “by up to 3%,” were partly made to deal with small, turbocharged engines, and to work better with engines that reach peak torque early on (such as diesels). The latter required a higher gear range, so that the eight-speed will move from 7.0 to 7.8 — incidentally beating the eight-speed currently used by General Motors.

Internal losses were cut partly by adding sprints into the multidisk packages of the shift elements, to almost fully open friction shift elements and thereby cause less drag torque. Power losses were cut by over two thirds, according to ZF.
Creep torque has been cut by fully opening a clutch during deceleration and when the vehicle is stopped, so that drivers don’t have to brake to keep the car from moving (which may feel odd to some drivers). The oil pump pressure has been cut in pressure by around 30%.
New torsional vibration dampers eliminate vibrations from the engine, stopping them from moving along the driveline and into the driveline and the body.
The new torque converter allows faster transmission of power and lets lock-up occur much earlier.
Coasting with the transmission uncoupled can now occur at speeds up to around 100 mph, and stop-start systems can now work immediately instead of after 1.5 seconds.
The transmission also improves downshifts, providing nested multiple downshifts for even quicker response times.

All of this testing and improving is still in front of ford, because they didn't sell wven one piece of first generation yet. If tou think, that it qill be smooth without problems, you are delusional.
Of course there is a possibility, that ford uses their back engineering again, like they did, when they walk away from Toyota hybrid or bought Tesla car to study hybrids, so they might safe some time, but it looks, they didn't figure it out yet, because 10 speed is not here yet.

Raptor will have paddle shifters under steering wheel, because they don't know to make mapping right, so you will need to shift that 10 speed by yourself. LOL.

Hey look at that, the lead turd rammer ram copied and pasted his only propaganda site info that he blindly follows. Sure Fiat and Ram assemblers cannot figure out the mapping because all chrysler is, is an assembly factory where they buy components and hope they work. So sure the 9 speed mapping was done by ZF and is still being worked out. The good news is, is Ford and GM have been building and building shift maps for their own transmissions for a very long time and know what they are doing. So we don't have to worry about the 10 speed.keep reading your brain wash propaganda site for your next come back sheep boy.

"Want and can afford are two different things.
Ranger sold that many because they were cheap, tough and reliable.
If the price difference between a extended cab and the quad door was only $350 more....I'd bet they would have sold a lot of quad door models." -- Posted by: mackintire


I don't know about tough and reliable for the Ranger; I've only had mine for about 3,000 miles and the first thing I had to have done was a complete clutch system rebuild. Cheap? At $13.5K in '97, I'm not so sure there either. Yes, I have the original sticker for it and currently clocks at just under 23K miles.

"You can't really go much smaller then the current taco, frontier, Colorado. If you sit in one you will see they are narrow not much elbow room or rear leg room. People say they are bigger but thier not really. It's just most of them are crew cab 4x4 so they look bigger." -- Posted by: Mike

They are bigger, Mike. The reason you don't hae much elbow or leg room is that they jam you too close to the wheel and crowd that humongous center console between the seats in these newer models; no room to move around despite their size. I have more room in the cab of my '97 Ranger than you do in a new Colorado... well, almost. And I can seat two adults and a 50# dog in the front seat, too. If you do some research on the Fiat Toro, they at least give the impression of a more open seating arrangement.

And personally, I like the smaller physical size. The Toro includes a bed extender if you have to carry something longer than the closed bed length. As does the Santa Cruz, which I now believe is based on the Toro or other small truck available outside of the US.

@LMAO
I posted facts, you posted feelings and believes without source.
9 speed has no issues anymore.
10 speed hasn't been sold yet. That's the fact.


Rambot, the fact is is you have no brain to think on your own. Your facts come from your Fiat propaganda site only. That is your only source of information. That is a fact. Also another fact, all fiat trucks are the least reliable compared to Toyota a, Nissan, GM, and Ford. Fact is the fiat trucks are at the bottom and not recommended at all by CR. A respected company by everyone except the excuse makers, Fiat owners like yourself. I love the fiat comment about how they have the unsafest trucks.

Fiat-Chrysler in bleeding money. They tried unsuccessfully to force a merger with GM, now they are looking to Ford to save them. Ultimately, Chinese or Indian company will likely step in a buy the company. Sergio retires in a few months, things will change quickly from there.

@LMAO
My facts are supported by source I always provide. You post just your feelings and believes. Fiat makes respectable full size Vans for European market + Ducato Dually and good trucks. Could you point me to the Fiat truck model, which is at the bottom and not recommended by CR ?

Why are you so angry ? Because your ford is lacking with transmissions, diesel, small pick up , SUV's and Mini Van's they have no existent? Ford is in big troubles and very behind in technology. You know it , that's why you bite all around you like buldog, not posting facts, just feeling. I don't have any other racial explanation for your behavior. You didn't bring any useful info to this topic. Just read your posts back. You are useless in this forum and should be blocked from posting hate.

I like the Dakota diesel idea, but that 3.0 weighs too much.

If they had just the 2010 Pentastar v-6 3.6 in a Dakota, it would have been fine, instead of that 3.7.

Now they've got the pentastar V-6 doing pretty good in the Durango and Grand Cherokee, better power and mileage at a lower RPM.

I would take that instead.

@ooooxi: what maintenance are you talking about at a hundred thousand miles on the Chevy Colorado diesel? The big spender is the timing belt changed out at 150,000 miles.

I just don't know if you bothered to look at it see what the maintenance required?

A belt on a Colorado diesel doesn't sound right, when you can get a full size that gets about the same mileage and it actually has a chain that doesn't need it quick change out.

LMAO
My facts are supported by source I always provide. You post just your feelings and believes. Fiat makes respectable full size Vans for European market + Ducato Dually and good trucks. Could you point me to the Fiat truck model, which is at the bottom and not recommended by CR ?

Why are you so angry ? Because your ford is lacking with transmissions, diesel, small pick up , SUV's and Mini Van's they have no existent? Ford is in big troubles and very behind in technology. You know it , that's why you bite all around you like buldog, not posting facts, just feeling. I don't have any other racial explanation for your behavior. You didn't bring any useful info to this topic. Just read your posts back. You are useless in this forum and should be blocked from posting hate.


Posted by: RAM | Apr 22, 2016 10:27:36 AM

First purchase a CR subscription and you will have all the info need about fiat 1500 reliability along with the 2500 and 3500.

I have no idea why you think I would be angry let alone about transmissions. The Ford built 5R110w is about as bullet proof as you can get. Even though it is a 6 speed transmission that usually only uses 5 of the ratios and sometimes 4 depending on load it has been around since 2003 until now. It has been rock solid. The 6R140 and the 6R80 has also been solid. I don't see any reason to get rid of them because they are very robust. Check out H&S tuneRS. The 6R140 handled 950 HP and 1650 torque before it started to slip.when the slip was detected by the calibration the engine was instantly detuned and saved the transmission. They drove the truck back home.An Allison came nowhere close to that and the Aisin does not either. So, no, not mad at all.

Minivans, really? Both GM and Ford are out of the big minivan business. Who cares about minivans. Ford has the transit connect which is killing that pos promasterbator fiat has. Fiat full sized is getting killed by the full sized transit.

You are the most useless trollie here. If you would go away you would not be missed by one person. Including your wife and children. Just saying.

Don't worry zvier, I would much rather be a bulldog than what you are, a shitzu.

Maybe you can look that up on your factual propaganda fiat website.

First purchase a CR subscription and you will have all the info need about fiat 1500 reliability along with the 2500 and 3500.

Posted by: LMAO | Apr 22, 2016 11:01:24 AM

I tried to google it and didn't find any Fiat 1500 ,2500 or 3500. Could you post a link for once ?

Chrysler 545RFE is most reliable trany I came across in my life. Lasts forever, no issues.

FCA is wiping the floor with any world SUV's maker, ford is no exception. Mini Van's detto.

Promaster Van had 51% jup over last year March data.
Promaster City jumped 529% over last year.

Jeep Cherokee and Renegate wipes the floor with any other brand.

Jeep is going to sell 2 millions suv's soon . Yet, you bragging about F150 with abysmal sale numbers compare to Jeep.
Pathetic.

JEEP or RAM TORO is going to be big success , because it's smart , comfy, less expensive, efficient, spacious, very well equipped, very well build and capable small truck, with big payload and bed size , if needed.

http://www.flatout.com.br/fiat-toro-da-4x4-diesel-de-nove-marchas-a-1-8-flex-aceleramos-todas-as-versoes-e-dissecamos-seus-detalhes-tecnicos/

First purchase a CR subscription and you will have all the info need about fiat 1500 reliability along with the 2500 and 3500.

Posted by: LMAO | Apr 22, 2016 11:01:24 AM

I tried to google it and didn't find any Fiat 1500 ,2500 or 3500. Could you post a link for once ?

Chrysler 545RFE is most reliable trany I came across in my life. Lasts forever, no issues.

FCA is wiping the floor with any world SUV's maker, ford is no exception. Mini Van's detto.

Promaster Van had 51% jup over last year March data.
Promaster City jumped 529% over last year.

Jeep Cherokee and Renegate wipes the floor with any other brand.

Jeep is going to sell 2 millions suv's soon . Yet, you bragging about F150 with abysmal sale numbers compare to Jeep.
Pathetic.

JEEP or RAM TORO is going to be big success , because it's smart , comfy, less expensive, efficient, spacious, very well equipped, very well build and capable small truck, with big payload and bed size , if needed.

http://www.flatout.com.br/fiat-toro-da-4x4-diesel-de-nove-marchas-a-1-8-flex-aceleramos-todas-as-versoes-e-dissecamos-seus-detalhes-tecnicos/

/2016/04/usa-commercial-van-sales-figures

You remain to be an idiot zvier. Nice try with your Fiat van sales pitch.

The Nissan nv200 is outselling the small pos fiat promasterbator

2016/04/usa-small-suv

I guess if you want to combine all three jeeps then you can claim that Fiat jeep outsells the Ford Escape. Just the Escape.LMAO.

/2016/04/usa-march

More data for you that probably was not posted on the fiat propaganda site.

johnny doe - - -

Fully agree.

Any pickup truck I buy, whether full-size or mid-size, MUST have at least two things:
1) Rugged BOF (body-on-frame) construction;
2) Manual transmission option.

=====================


Redesigned in 2013, just after IIHS came out with its new pickup truck testing guidelines that included the small-overlap front crash testing starting in the 2015 model year. A spokesman for Ram told PickupTrucks.com: "Our vehicles are designed for real-world performance and no single test determines overall, real-world vehicle safety. Every FCA [Fiat Chrysler Automobiles] U.S. vehicle meets or exceeds all applicable motor-vehicle safety standards.

I love this remark from fiat. Very sad if you think about it. Ford and GM (I'm sure others too) rely on the insurance data to make their vehicles better and safer. But fiat says "oh we do real world safety" what a joke. The insurance Institute knows what is real world because that is what they do. They see this stuff every day. Fiat is a huge joke.

@mrknowitall - The Torro is made in Brazil and Mexico does have trade agreements with them. It would be logistically the simplest solution to set up a line in Mexico to modify the Brazilian Torro for USA consumption. Even the Strada could be shipped to Mexico in knock down form and modified for the USA. I don't think that the USA and Brazil have FTA's covering vehicles.

Well Jeep series, is like F series to you. No ?

RAM - since you are ESL I'll ask for a clarification on your statement.

@Loubc
We clarified that you are the ESL already. Remember , that OFFROAD key word you missed twice ?
It looks you have an Alzheimer too. Is it clear enough for you ?
Ask your wife to read it for you please.

P.s.
Sergio already mentioned a Wagoneer AND grand wagoneer. He also proposed the idea of basing them off of the next gen ram 1500. Hmm, maybe that is why the wagoneer/grand wagoneer haven't showed up yet... the ram 1500 update is probably a 2018 at the end of 2017.

FCA management is seeking a "partner" aka a buyer, to take this mess off their hands. The auto industry has been operating at below-capacity conditions for 25 years or more.

Global economic conditions currently suck and the EU economy has chronic double digit unemployment, a union workforce, and with the exception of Daimler, Volvo and BMW a dearth of decent product to sell.

Don't get too excited over FCA enduring the huge expense of bringing new product to market, esp., pickups and SUVs at a time when their environment is so lame.

Sergio may be moving on.

I wish Fiat Chrysler well but I am skeptical. It is going to take more than a rehashed Fiat product to put FCA back.

"johnny doe - - -

"Fully agree. Any pickup truck I buy, whether full-size or mid-size, MUST have at least two things:
1) Rugged BOF (body-on-frame) construction;
2) Manual transmission option."
== Posted by: NMGOM

Why?

I might give you #1 IF you do a lot of heavy hauling/towing; roughly 90% of full-sized pickup never do that and far fewer mid-sized trucks. #2 is almost unnecessary today as automatics have a way to manually select the specific gear you need in many cases, especially with the 6, 8 and 10-speed models. In fact, most full-sized trucks today practically prohibit towing with a manual transmission and simply won't install any "Max Tow" hardware if it's not automatic.

Manual transmissions today tend to be more for sport driving than any functional use with a truck. At one time the manual did offer better economy, but that advantage has gone away in most vehicles and with today's dog-tooth clutches in dual-clutch designed automatics, any advantage manuals once had is lost. If you've got either the paddles on the wheel or a console shifter, a mere flick of your fingers lets you upshift or downshift at will to select the best gear for the need. Granted, the dial type gear selector may not have that ability, but I don't know if they offer something on the wheel or console to give you that control either.

My point? For anything but commercial-level work, BoF and Manuals are simply unimportant any more.

What a joke

I remember an article featuring Ralph Giles and as a child he added carboard to his parents station wagon as a design exercize. I'm sure there is better design under wraps here, as are those wheels.

Was just in Mexico and spent some time poking around in the global Ranger that we don't get. I wanted to drive one right off the lot. Ford needs to bring this to the U.S. asap.



The comments to this entry are closed.