More Details About Ford's New 10-Speed Coming for 2017

Ford F-150 10-spd 1 II


When Ford first announced its investment of almost $1.6 billion to upgrade their Livonia transmission plant to build an all-new 10-speed transmission, the announcement translated into 500 new jobs but also pushed the F-150 past the GM half-ton transmission offerings by two extra gears. The new transmission be offered in the 2017 F-150.

When we looked at Ford's newest F-150 engine and transmission technology at an event in May, we learned that the new combination will deliver more than 450 pounds-feet of torque and sit in the same-size casing as the previous six-speed.

We also saw stand-alone exhibits of both the new 3.5-liter EcoBoost engine and 10-speed transmission that let us know the combination would have the same start/stop technology we've already seen on the smaller six-speed transmission mated to the 2.7-liter EcoBoost, but it will have a few upgrades to make the system more efficient and difficult to detect.

Additionally, we've just learned the new transmission will not have a single piece of cast-iron in it, but instead it will use other alloys and advanced materials for the components. The torque converter also is newly integrated with some of the clutches, shaving more than two pounds in weight.

As you might have guessed, this won't be the last time we see this transmission, developed in a partnership with GM, in a full-size pickup or SUV. More to come after we get a chance to drive the new combination later this summer.

Manufacturer image


10-speed-transmission-close-up II

 

Comments

Awesome! Nice to see this technology coming to use in today's vehicles. Doesn't matter who makes or develops it...just that its happening.

Wow- this article says almost nothing.
Gear ratios, or even the ratio spread? Design GVW?

I must be too old skool...I don't see the need for all of these gears. All I see is $$$$ when one of these need rebuilt.
I don't need an over, over, overdrive! Sure in the old days a Mack may have had a quadraplex transmission but that was due to lack of power, but trucks today have more power than ever before.

Practically I wonder from a FE perspective how much difference a 4, 6, 8, and 10 speed auto transmission make.

Practically I wonder from a FE perspective how much difference a 4, 6, 8, and 10 speed auto transmission make.


Posted by: mcj115 | Jun 16, 2016 1:39:17 PM

It does not take much improvement in FE per vehicle to really account for emissions and FE standards benifits as a corporation. Because companies like Ford sell a lot of trucks, even minor improvements that the end user may not even notice accounts for big energy credits for the manufacture. The Benifit really is in the gearing. With more gear ratios you can install a higher final drive gear and still in prove performance because the transmission has the mechanical advantage. I would not use fiat 1500 trucks as a good example because performance and FE sucks with thise trucks and their 8 speed. However GM showed big improvement in performance and FE with their 8 speed. Along with big money spent in engine design.

I don't know your back ground with transmissions but just because you have 10 speeds does not mean it has to be complicated. Because you can have several planetary gear sets in several configurations you can play with power flow to change the ratios. The complexity can be in the programming however it is much easier to have ultra smooth shifts with a narrow gear ratio than a wide ratio like 4 speeds have.

"Practically I wonder from a FE perspective how much difference a 4, 6, 8, and 10 speed auto transmission make."

I have wondered the same thing but in my life I have had a two speed Hydraglide, the three speed turbo 350 and Torqueflite 727s, then several 4 speed transmission and now some 6 speed transmissions. Each time I have haven't really seen the need in advance but after getting more gears have really appreciated them. Not only that, but the transmissions really don't seem to need any more maintenance. I want to drive one of the new transmissions before declaring that I don't want one. One advantage will be that with enough gear spread there will be no point in have different rear axle ratios so you can have optimum gearing whether running light or heavily loaded.

This is part of Ford's (and GM's) plan for complying with Federally mandated fuel rules. So, if you want to blame someone for unneeded complications, blame the Feds. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-crown-jewel-f-150-090103514.html

It's not on the market yet ? Maybe next year. Ford spent all the money for a recalls.


Oh great, just wait until GM recalls this transmission and johnny doe will say Ford built it.

Ford can't make their 6 speed behave, lol, so they will try 10 speeds!

Those 2.7 Ford Eco turds need all the help.

Ford will finally hit over 25 mpg, then they will realize Ram got 27/28 mpg a few years ago, with a diesel.

They didn't need a phony aluminum body that isn't battle tested, and only makes the new F-150 the safest F-150, only because it's THE NEWEST F-150. ( has nothing to do with it being made of aluminum, Engineers figured out where to put this, that, and the other post.

Spend enough money on engineering stuff you learn that.

But they're still behind with their turbo engine.

But I do see Ford running up the amount of money spent on a truck.

Thanks to Ford, 30,000$ will barely buy a regular cab truck in a year, and an F-150 will go over 60K, you'll be able to get a crew cab four-wheel drive, XLT, once you spend 45K.

This whole site has turned to pure garbage.

Ram couldn't make their 5 speed behave, lol, so they tried 8 speeds and they don't behave either!

Those 5.7 Ram Hemi turds need all the help.

Ram gas engines will finally hit over 25 mpg, then they will realize Ford got 27/28 mpg a few years ago, with an Eco.

They needed a phony aluminum hood that isn't battle tested, and only makes the new Ram the safest Ram, only because it's THE NEWEST Ram, not the safest truck. (has nothing to do with it actually being safe, Bean Counters figured out where to put this, that, and the other post to make the Ramtards happy.

Spend enough money on engineering stuff you learn that.

But they're still behind with their Hemi engine.

But I do see Ram running up the amount of money spent on a truck.

Thanks to Ram, 30,000$ will barely buy a regular cab truck in a year, and an Ram will go over 60K becaue of the sticker and decal packages, you'll be able to get a crew cab four-wheel drive, SLT, once you spend 45K.

Ford can't make their 6 speed behave, lol, so they will try 10 speeds!

Those 2.7 Ford Eco turds need all the help.

Ford will finally hit over 25 mpg, then they will realize Ram got 27/28 mpg a few years ago, with a diesel.

They didn't need a phony aluminum body that isn't battle tested, and only makes the new F-150 the safest F-150, only because it's THE NEWEST F-150. ( has nothing to do with it being made of aluminum, Engineers figured out where to put this, that, and the other post.

Spend enough money on engineering stuff you learn that.

But they're still behind with their turbo engine.

But I do see Ford running up the amount of money spent on a truck.

Thanks to Ford, 30,000$ will barely buy a regular cab truck in a year, and an F-150 will go over 60K, you'll be able to get a crew cab four-wheel drive, XLT, once you spend 45K.


Posted by: TRX-4 Tom | Jun 16, 2016 2:43:23 PM


Yes, this is GARBAGE. Someone take out the garbage, it stinks up in here.

" ... When Ford's all-new 10-speed transmission debuts in the 2017 Ford F-150, it might look a little strange."

@PUTC

realizing some of the issues Ford is having with F150 product quality, the new tranny may "sound" strange and "act" strange too!

@PUTC

realizing some of the issues Ford is having with F150 product quality, the new tranny may "sound" strange and "act" strange too!


Posted by: papa jim | Jun 16, 2016 3:53:17 PM

He's referring to you GM trvlls.

The complexity can be in the programming however it is much easier to have ultra smooth shifts with a narrow gear ratio than a wide ratio like 4 speeds have.

@LMAO

you were responding to a comment about FE and the impact that a 10 speed might have on mileage and performance.

Fact is, unless the 10 speed is used a lot when heavily loaded, it doesn't make much difference.

If you drive with big payloads it really helps, but unless you drive a lot in bumper/bumper traffic or in the hills hauling loads, the extra cogs only help FE a little bit.

Ram couldn't make their 5 speed behave, lol, so they tried 8 speeds and they don't behave either!

Posted by: Tommy | Jun 16, 2016 3:01:58 PM

My RAM 545 RFE 5 speed has been build right. Doesn't shift to the first gear at Hwy speed , no recalls. Ford is a leader again.

"This whole site has turned to pure garbage
Posted by: Truck Crazy | Jun 16, 2016 2:53:38 PM"

I am concerned about this too. Have grown weary of the Ford vs GM bickering and mudslinging. Please, guys, keep it cool...

====================

Highway FE mileage improvements will be limited with the final drive ratio likely to be held at .6 to 1. However, greater FE can be had while accelerating from a stop to highway speeds. Most vehicles experience a great deal of city driving and multiple gears can help take advantage of the engines torque curve. Hi torque low RPM engines can be kept in their optimum operating range most often. GM's high compression V8's and Ford's turbo 6's make sufficient low end torque to move full size pick-ups with ease.


Highway FE mileage improvements will be limited with the final drive ratio likely to be held at .6 to 1. However, greater FE can be had while accelerating from a stop to highway speeds. Most vehicles experience a great deal of city driving and multiple gears can help take advantage of the engines torque curve. Hi torque low RPM engines can be kept in their optimum operating range most often. GM's high compression V8's and Ford's turbo 6's make sufficient low end torque to move full size pick-ups with ease.

Posted by: GMSRGREAT | Jun 16, 2016 4:39:48 PM

One of the few times I agree with you. I would not be surprised to see a final ratio in the transmission in .5 range. You could have a 3:15 or even 2:75 rear end ratio to keep RPMs really low on the highway. But at some point you could get to low of an rpm under load and get that lugging issue that tends to wear out pistons.

This whole site has turned to pure garbage.

@Truck Crazy

Agreed.

The truth about cars has covered some of the same stuff as PUTC (Chevy's new attack adds,Ridgeline box add ect) and the blogs have been very good.

This site is like a bad car crash. You don't want to look but still do. LOL

This site has turned to pure garbage. I wouldn't mind if they shut down these stupid blogs and just had the articles.

This site was so great before , no one argued, when ford horde said every day in any article, Ford is the best, Best never rest, Follow the leader.
I remember those great times, when allone was around.
It turned to the garbage, since we disagree and provide back up and source.
It's too much for Ford girls to take.
LOL.

The top three gears are over-drives. I think gear #10 is 0.64
#7 is 1.00

First gear is a 4.58 ratio I think.

Ford said that unloaded it won't use all 10 gears while accelerating to 70Mph, it will skip depending on throttle position, rate of acceleration and perceived load

An Engineer at ZF was quoted as saying..."The design looks sound." and "You reach a point of limited return around 9 gears."


The top three gears are over-drives. I think gear #10 is 0.64
#7 is 1.00

First gear is a 4.58 ratio I think.

Ford said that unloaded it won't use all 10 gears while accelerating to 70Mph, it will skip depending on throttle position, rate of acceleration and perceived load

An Engineer at ZF was quoted as saying..."The design looks sound." and "You reach a point of limited return around 9 gears."

Posted by: mackintire | Jun 16, 2016 5:47:11 PM

That would not be much improvement at all if those ratios are correct. Current 6R80 ratios are 1st 4.17:1 and 6th .69:1. Ford does not employ a 1:1 ratio in their transmissions so I would be also surprised to see a 1:1.

The posters on this site are at it again! This site has gone down hill because of the jealous dolts who always mock Mopar/Chrysler/RAM non stop! Such as the people posting on this thread and the thread on the new 2017 Mopar Rebel!

For many many years on this site people put down "Dodge" RAM trucks. Then some people started to stand up for RAM and the jealous Ford/GM/Toyota people could NOT stand it because the facts are RAM has a better fuel economy than GM or Ford, better brand reliability, better brand marketing (GGR), and Ram is posed to introduce new trucks in the next few years that will be better than ever! Thse are the facts that make thee non-Mopar fans resorting into name calling for RAM/Mopar vehicles, such as people do here. What a shame your jealousy/ignorance ruined this site.

Stay thristy.

I for one am excited to see this new transmission. I've never towed with an 8 speed but I do know I could use more gears than my six offers now while towing and cruising on the highway. I think two mpg improvement is a reasonable expectation but three or four might be possible especially with the small ecoboost motor. For those that think it's a bad idea there are a lot of engineers at two major car companies that disagree with you.

The ratios are purportedly:
4.696, 2.985, 2.179, 1.801, 1.539, 1.28, 1, 0.852, 0.689, 0.636, Reverse 4.786
The ZF 6hp transmission Ford is currently building:
4.171, 2.34, 1.521, 1.143, 0.867, 0.691, Reverse 3.403
Ford really can't go that tall with axle ratios
Figure 3.15- 3.5 V6 ecoboost & 5.0 V8 4x2
3.31- 3.5 V6 ecoboost & 5.0 V8 4x4; 2.7 V6 ecoboost 4x2
3.55- 2.7 V6 ecoboost 4x4; 3.5 V6 4x2
3.73- 3.5 V6 4x4

MOST AMERICAN TRUCKS .....F150 #1 at 85%...Canyon Colorado #2 at 80.5%....Ram 2500 #3 at 74.5%..... Tundra #4 at 73.5%..... Silverado/Sierra #5 at 72.5% . Tacoma #6 at 71%...... Ram 1500 #7 at 59.5%...... Frontier #8 at 59% v6 and 45% 4cylinder.......Top 25 cars and trucks GM=19 Ford= 4 Jeep= 1 Honda= 1. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2016/06/15/which-are-the-most-american-cars-and-trucks/#3d6e0f0f4930

Firstly, to all the anti-Ford fan boys shooting it down even before it's release - this is the future so get use to it.

Reason - I test drove my buddies '16 SRT8 Jeep GC (before the engine sized up at 2 000 miles / 3 months later & still in the garage - dealer still can't explain exactly what went wrong).

On the positive side - the 8-speed was silk smooth & at times you won't notice the up or down shifts. So I believe there is still room for a couple more gears & Ford adding real time view of which gear you're in will be perfect.

And this is why Ford is putting the 10 speed in there trucks first..........http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-16/ford-s-crown-jewel-the-f-150-has-a-big-problem-after-overhaul

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/05/2017-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-10-speed-automatic-transmission-is-that-new-shift/

I know this is a GM link but since this is a joint venture transmission it applies. What blew me away is how fast the transmission shifts. GM is claiming faster shift times over the Porsche PDK dual clutch transmission. If you ever driven a dual clutch automatic you will find the shifts are lightning fast.

I still will put my money on the 2017 Chevrolet Silverado,crewcab,6.2L,10 speed automatic against the 2017 Ford F-150 crewcab next generation 3.5L Ecoboost 10 speed auto,then when the redesigned 2018 RAM 1500 comes out late 2017,we will have a game.

Can't wait to watch how big of a fail this will be HAHAHA!

Ford is brilliant.

This article really doesn't say anything.

The only benefit to a higher number of gears is it should make weaker engines more viable performers for most like their base 3.5 V6 naturally aspirated engine. But I think the amount of shifting going on would drive me nuts personally. I think a 6 speed auto that has 3 lower gears for accelerating and Getting up to speed around town, 4th and 5th gear for cruising around town and 4th,5th,and 6th are your highway gears.

hummmm?
clutch inside the torque converter?
ok, it's a lock up torque converter
I see it's too complicated where it's prone to fail and no Ford Technican has the brains to troubleshoot or repair it.

Ford needs to invest their money on training the dealer Ford Techs and require every Ford Dealer for them to be factory trained.

If Ford wants to build new high tech transmissions they need to back it up with the trained mechanics.
The dummies at the local Ford Dealerships now don't even know how to change wiper blades.

bravo1
I agree! The Chevy with the 6.2 is the best you can get for heavy towing.
I have watched the videos where the Silverado 1500 matched with the 6.2 V8 did the best job towing a 9000 lb trailer and got better MPG than the 5.3 V8.
And what floored me was the GMC Canyon with the 2.8 diesel 4 cyl did MUCH better towing the same 9000 lb trailer than the 2016 F-150 with the 5.0 V8 !

hummmm?
clutch inside the torque converter?
ok, it's a lock up torque converter


Posted by: Lou_DC | Jun 17, 2016 3:41:03

What in the world are you even stating here. A clutch in the torque converter has been around since the 80s. That is far from new.

And what floored me was the GMC Canyon with the 2.8 diesel 4 cyl did MUCH better towing the same 9000 lb trailer than the 2016 F-150 with the 5.0 V8 !


Posted by: Lou_DC | Jun 17, 2016 3:47:57 AM

No it had slightly better FE when towing. In the end they claimed the F150 was a better tow vehicle. And it was a 7K trailer. The canyon is not rated for 9K.

And what floored me was the GMC Canyon with the 2.8 diesel 4 cyl did MUCH better towing the same 9000 lb trailer than the 2016 F-150 with the 5.0 V8 !


Posted by: Lou_DC | Jun 17, 2016 3:47:57 AM

Not leave out that it had better FE than its GM big sisters.

They claimed Who is they?

He is referring to the Mashup on TFL truck.

Wow this makes me nervous... So much new, so complicated, so much power, so much to go wrong and GM was involved too (they got a history of failing). I know its cool to be first but all this for an extra 1 or 2 mpg and all the risk?... I know the Camaro has it and I haven't heard of any issues so far (its still very early for this tranny). I know they have been testing it with the new Raptor but I just remember all those 4spd auto tranny issues of old Ford and now Fiat had.

"The only benefit to a higher number of gears is it should make weaker engines more viable performers for most like their base 3.5 V6 naturally aspirated engine. But I think the amount of shifting going on would drive me nuts personally. I think a 6 speed auto that has 3 lower gears for accelerating and Getting up to speed around town, 4th and 5th gear for cruising around town and 4th,5th,and 6th are your highway gears."
-- Posted by: Scott | Jun 16, 2016 11:35:19 PM

BINGO! Class 8 trucks needed as many as 18 gears to get their heavy loads moving behind maybe 250-300 horses. Now we're putting tiny engines that, without turbo, only put out 100-150 horses with the intent that a smaller engine at cruise would get better highway fuel mileage and under boost could still provide horsepower and torque to move a pickup's rated load from a dead stop. Those smaller engines tend to also have very narrow power bands compared to V6 and V8 engines. Even the bigger engines would benefit though, as they would be able to operate at the low end of their power band more efficiently and still save fuel (as long as the driver didn't plant his foot on the floor every time, which really isn't good for the engine anyway.)

So these multi-speed transmissions are meant to give lower-powered engines the ability to handle heavier loads and keep the engine at its best power speed for the load. The drawback will be that you WILL see more gear hunting as the transmission tries to match power to load on a grade and very probably will see modern pickups doing the same thing those Class 8 trucks do on steeper grades, slowing down to where the output torque can maintain a steady speed, even if that's 20mph, 30mph or even 40mph slower than cruising on the flat.

Honestly? The next step will have to be some form of hybrid drive with batteries supplementing the engine for more than just stop-and-go traffic. When you get to that point, why not go with all-electric drive and an engine just powerful enough to maintain charge even on a long grade. A 100kWh battery with a 150-horse generator engine would more than meet the need of any pickup truck under load for most, if not all, highway grades.

I never understood how to compare fuel economy of a diesel engine to a gas engine when they use different fuels...

An impressive feat of MPG would be a v8 gasser getting better mpg then a v6 gasser. Either way, IMO when comparing mpg, I compare on the same fuel type.

Diesels engines are awesome but they are generally slow. require urea but can pull alot of weight and do it while still having great mileage. I wish gassers were more like that.

In that mashup tfl truck compared a 4banger midsize diesel to a v8 gasser full size. Gee I wonder what will have better fuel economy.

On the surface, the comparison of fuel economy between gas and diesel is rather simple, until you compare the cost of the fuel as well. Prior to this draw-down we've been experiencing for the last two years, diesel was 50ยข per gallon more expensive even than premium gas, which actually ended up with the cost per mile roughly the same despite diesel's overwhelmingly higher mpg. Problem was, the trucking and railroad industries were going broke because they, too, were paying higher rates even though by buying in bulk they were getting quantity discounts... well, railroads were, anyway. Truckers paid what we did at the pump. Strangely though, diesel doesn't require the level of refining that gasoline does so that high price was artificially jacked up because the industry did not want diesel cars killing their profits.

Today, diesel still offers a notable mpg advantage but it isn't as extreme as previously. Just as the small diesel engines could achieve near 50mpg, gasoline engines are pushing, and with hybrid systems exceeding, 40-45mpg and in at least one case exceeding 50mpg. The logic behind having a significantly higher diesel price has somewhat gone away to the point that diesel, at least where I live, rides roughly between premium and mid-grade gasoline.

So all along there's been no reason to go diesel on an economic basis for over 15 years.

LMAOay: Did you really say the Ram , no wait Fiat is what you put, does not get that good mpg? Really? Seems to me all the test and driving I have done in any Ram truck, with the Hemi, has gotten as much or more than any F-150, with any of their engines. With that said you do have to realize the Ram does weigh a lot more than a new F-150, but even with that, the mileage is not a great a difference as you might think, performance on the other hand might be off some, as the performance of the Eco Boost engines is great, if you can keep them together, as I have had enough with the head gasket problems to ever own another one again.



The comments to this entry are closed.