What's changed for the 2017 Toyota Tundra: Nothing. End of article.

Exactly. It is now considered a niche vehicle by Mike Sweers, the chief engineer for Toyota Trucks; you can read about it on TundraHQ. Also, back in '07, a Toyota executive went so far as to call the launch of the second-generation Tundra the 'single biggest and most important launch in Toyota's 50-year U.S. history.

So, the Tundra went from an important vehicle to niche vehicle.

Toyota spent 3 billion 2007 in advertising. Remember all the commercials about the truck that changes everything? It was left to languish for the next 6 years? WTH 'yota? Are the B3 really that entrenched with brand loyalty that not even Toyota can break the grip - if that's true, the Titan is DOA

While the tundra isn't the class leader it once was, I think this is taking it a little too far in the article:

"But it lacks the low-end grunt, towing and payload strength of the other more popular pickups from Ford, Chevrolet, Ram and GMC"

The Ram has the lowest payload on the crewcabs by far, some as low as 800-900lbs.

Everyone likes to put the max payload in the ads, but usually they are regular cabs or special package, and not the highest volume seller which are the crewcabs, in that category they all tow pretty close to one another 9-10K. Just IMO, anything more than 8K often should be a 3/4 ton so you actually have some reserve, especially payload.

The tundra hauls and tows just fine for a 1/2 ton, these sites get carried away sometimes with a few tenths of a second on a closed track. If you have to have the fastest 6K lb brick then the tundra is not for you, buy the new ecoboost 10 speed or GM 6.2 8-speed, no big deal.

If you want a truck that on the average has the best reliability and highest resale value, and you just want a truck that gets the job done while not being the absolute latest and greatest, then perhaps the tundra worth a look, especially if you are a guy who drives them till the wheels come off.

Things are getting pretty grim now at Tundra HQ.......

Mario says:
August 8, 2016 at 10:36 pm

Tim,

Any concrete news on the 2017 tundra plans. Been looking every where for a small leak of info. Other than possible expectations, any idea when they will release credible info? I wish they would add some of the land cruiser options to the tundras as far as offroad technology.

Thanks keep up the good articles.
Reply

Tim Esterdahl says:
August 9, 2016 at 8:47 am

Mario,

Nothing concrete at the moment. I expect to hear something in the coming weeks, but I don’t suspect there will be any changes besides possibly some trim level adjustments and standard safety features.

-Tim
Reply
Mario says:
August 9, 2016 at 12:19 pm

Hmm, that blows. Oh well. I saw that new 2017 superduty and wow they raised the bar. I was in hopes of expecting a little of that technology for the tundra, well at least that awesome peak around the corner front cam.
Reply
Tim Esterdahl says:
August 9, 2016 at 2:10 pm

Mario,

I was recently in Denver for a Built Ford Tough truck event. The new Super Duty trucks are simply amazing and I really wish Toyota would do something. Ford certainly raises the bar on trucks – for better or for worse.

-Tim

A tow hitch receiver. And bucket seats in what was a supposed Limited model? wow. Tundra fans will be on suicide watch.

I guess the powertrain upgrades will have to wait until the major in a few years. DI and VVT-iW is on the shelf for both V8s. They didn't develop the new AB80 trans just to put it in a few thousand Land Cruisers.
Toyota could well go with the same strategy as Nissan, but without all the XD hubbub. Beef up the rear section of the "triple-tech" frame to offer a Crewmax with a 6ft bed and raise the GVW of that and the Double cab/8ft bed trucks to #8000.

3. " the league-leading Ford F-150 outsells the Tundra by more than 4-to-1."

Response;
How F-150s are sold?

Is Toyota's goal to outsell the F-150?

Or do you mean F-Series to be more accurate.

............................................................................

You have too many errors in your article to take it seriously.

Learn pickups.
Posted by: WildWilly | Sep 8, 2016 1:29:10 PM

BAFO,
He means F-150's. F-150 outsells Tundra by more than 4 to 1.

http://cars.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b3c669e201b8d1f90f1f970c-800wi

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2016/01/best-selling-pickup-trucks-december-2015.html

As many people have told you before stick to what you know. There are many errors in your posts.

Same old same old with Toyota... Every 10-20yrs they really knock one out of the park and then like a catchy song on the radio they just keep replaying it over and over and over again.

The 2014 refresh brought a welcome aesthetic relief from that ghastly plastic dashboard with gauges poking out of it like random port hole windows on a cruise ship, but the 19MPG Highway rating for the 4.6l in the Tundra is getting closer to the City ratings every other truck in this segment. At some point "because it's reliable" is only going to get them so far.

The simple fact that Toyota can sell 110,000 of these a year with less $ on the hood then anyone is amazing. Money in the bank, 2018 will bring the 8 speed, possibly a new 5.7, with a serious refresh in 2020

@BAFO, theres almost as many errors here as you.....

The Tundra is nice, and its much nicer in person compared to say, the gm twins, the interior on the plat is especialy nice, doesnt look cheap like the gm twins upper trim level, but falls short of the military grade f150

Toyota sells to everyday consumers unlike Ford who sells an incredible number of fleet sales. Junk trucks stripped down to nothing and sold to the lowest bidder usually to governmental entity.

The Tundra has been selling for profit since to 2007. Can Ford or GM say that? Nope. Had it not been for the american taxpayer both companies would be gone.

"Tundra has a loyal following because of its perceived quality, reliability and general competence" There is no perception here this is a fact. You guys are supposed to be a truck site look the data. P U T C is a Ford site and so only Ford will be touted as best when in fact they are not.

Sweers response to the lack of QDR my Tundra had was, and I quote "Not ours or TSB".

He didn't deny it...

My 16 Platinum Tundra is great, I really like the truck. For a half-ton it's one of the few that don't have issues. Only complaint with the truck is I am running into is my toys get larger and I'm going to start exceeding the towing/hauling limits of my half-ton truck. I think I may have to look into the Heavy Duty market, but the Tundra for what it is has been great for me. I'm currently on my 4th Tundra so far.

If you want a "traditional feeling truck" with a big V8 then the Tundra is it. It rides like a "truck", has the ground clearance of a "truck", it get the gas mileage of a "truck" and it has big parts like a "truck" should. The 10.5" ring gear and suspension parts on the Tundra still dwarf the big 3 components to this day.

Toyota's plant is at full capacity, as long as Toyota sells the Tundras they won't make major changes. It will probably get the 8 speed next year.

There is no perception here this is a fact. You guys are supposed to be a truck site look the data. P U T C is a Ford site and so only Ford will be touted as best when in fact they are not.

Posted by: Cooper | Sep 8, 2016 3:09:23 PM
________________________________________________

Toyota has been resting on its laurels for years. It's allowed quality to slip, defects to persist, powertrains to age to obsolescence, interiors to become cheap and ratty, etc etc. Like others have pointed out, Toyota's frames are weak and flimsy. The problem only gets worse with age as the frame isn't well protected from corrosion and rust eats it away in just a few years. The Aisin 6 speed is average at best, with a lot of complaints for slippage at low mileage.

Why hasn't Toyota addressed the cam tower oil leak issue yet? Even after all these years knowing about the problem, new trucks continue to develop oil leaks.

Why doesn't Toyota do something to address the horrendous fuel economy? All the domestic manufacturers have been able to engineer powertrains that are efficient, reliable, and powerful. They've also engineered or incorporated modern transmissions with 8-10 speeds. Is Toyota slowly turning into the old GM? Going down the list, it sure looks to be the case.

funny how people have all these negative opinions on tundras who have likely never owned one. If you don't like it don't buy it, pretty simple.

Bandit,

that was a load of subjective junk you just spouted. Just for instance, I'm on pretty much all the tundra boards and have been for many years, have owned 4 and also owned big three trucks, which are also nice. They all have their ups and downs.

there isn't "a lot of complaints" about the aisin 6 speed slipping, that's just one example of BS

Your opinion, like mine that tundra was never class leading. The only people buying them are the faithful who believe the lie that toyotas are more reliable. BS. Maybe at one time 20 or 30 years ago. The fact that the faithful are willing to pay more for a used truck of possible lesser value than a domestic truck say it all. BTW, I have owned toyota products in the past and can't say they were that reliable.

It was at one point.
https://youtu.be/4uH_qnCCBY0

Bought a new Tundra in 2007. I we as a guinea pig. Have not regretted it since. Now has 124k. Other then routine maintenance and an alternator at 88k it has been problem free.. It's a Reg cab all black no chrome beast of a truck..

As a long time lurker on this site and 08 Tundra owner, I can't stand what Toyota is doing. Toyota USA hasn't had the go ahead from HQ in Tokyo to go ahead and do anything substantial. Since Akio Toyoda took over, the mother ship has improved reliability and has returned to the slow and steady improvement formula, while taking complete control of R&D and determining what is and isn't a priority. So, in terms of the Tundra, HQ in Tokyo is clueless. Sales need to go down for a change to occur.

@Borla

Its funny what you said...In terms of people having blind loyalty to Toyota...many of the yahoos on here don't even realize their talking out of both sides (buy Ford, Chevy, or Ram... its the best, everything else is junk...e.g.). Theirs nothing I, nor anyone can say or do that will change the opinion of people who want to remain blinded by their own ignorance.

I think the tundra has plenty of power. Capable enough. And reliable. But the interior on the lower models is pitiful. My neighbor gave me a ride in his 2016 tundra the other day and I was shocked at how cheap looking the interior was. Only time I ever drove one was a 2009 model and that had a pitiful interior too. Doesn't seem to have improved much. I hated the gauge cluster.

Interior reminded me of early 2000s dodge. Talk about dated. And I'm told the fuel economy on the tundra is as bad as it gets for 1/2 ton pickups.

Your opinion, like mine that tundra was never class leading. The only people buying them are the faithful who believe the lie that toyotas are more reliable. BS. Maybe at one time 20 or 30 years ago. The fact that the faithful are willing to pay more for a used truck of possible lesser value than a domestic truck say it all. BTW, I have owned toyota products in the past and can't say they were that reliable.

Posted by: notoyotaforme | Sep 8, 2016 6:36:11 PM

I personally grew up with Toyota trucks around me (Dad had '89 Toyota Stout & then a '77 Hilux, FJ & many friends with FJ's too & the last 3 variants of Hiluxs); mechanically they worked fine but RUST badly! I agree the reliability perception many folks have but that's it - it's perception & with my experience, they are not any better than other brands. Their truck sales don't even register in the top 20 vehicles sold in the US;

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/research/best-selling-vehicles-in-america-%E2%80%94-september-edition/ss-AAiquE5#image=21

Exactly. Ford didn't get to be the top seller of trucks because they produce unreliable vehicles. People who use their trucks for work day in and day out know better.

They didn't get there because they do either.

Exactly. Ford didn't get to be the top seller of trucks because they produce unreliable vehicles. People who use their trucks for work day in and day out know better.

Posted by: notoyotaforme | Sep 8, 2016 9:47:01 PM

Ford has the biggest fleet sales. Companies are concerned with cost. The lease is up before the truck needs major money. Real simple for some.

So to start out, I have to say I'm a little disappointed in the refresh that Toyota made on the tundra in 2014. Was hoping for more myself. That being said, all the domestics had to make changes because the Tundra put them on notice in 2007. Toyota was the first to offer a 6 speed, while everyone else was still using 4 speeds. Tundra was the first with a dohc motor, everyone else was still using pushrods, except ford and the inadequate 5.4l. Toyota also used 4 piston fixed calipers while everyone else still uses 2 piston sliding calipers (which are more prone to warping and uneven wear). Speaking of the calipers, take one of fords apart and you will find the Pistons are made of plastic, the tundras are billet aluminum. All the domestics were resting on their loyals until the tundra really showed up! Also Toyota is smart with their money (some peoples investments) and didn't put a lot of money into the tundra due to the market and economy from 2008-2012. Instead focused on infrastructure and getting back to their roots of building the best quality vehicles they can!

Wow!

Where's my comment!

It was timid in comparison to the schoolyard stuff that I've read over the past several weeks.

Toyota was the first to offer a 6 speed, while everyone else was still using 4 speeds. Tundra was the first with a dohc motor, everyone else was still using pushrods, except ford and the inadequate 5.4l.

@sprtxkyle

Do your homework next time. Nissan had a DOHC engine and five speed auto (both standard) before Toyota even had a real half ton truck.

Before 2007, the Tundra was basically a mid size that came standard with a small V6, and an optional small V8 derived from their Lexus passenger car lineup. It was not until 2007 that Toyota showed up with a proper truck at all.

It is true some great engineering went into the Tundra and is made with some beefy parts, but there's some junk too. In my case to the tune of $17,000 of warranty work.

Before some of you call me a tro ll, etc., everything I post on my site is fact. I post copy of receipts for all work and references to other articles and sites that are legit, including TundraH Q. And on Tundra HQ, there is a article that discusses QDR and uses my experience as its basis--apparently my expectations were too high, so judge for yourself. You should read it as there's a response from Mike S about the problems I had.

Again, check out my site for the FACTS.

So, for you guys who want to spread the word on a real world experience with the Tundra's perceived QDR, feel free to put a URL reference in your forum signature to my web site; my site does not have any advertising etc., so I don't make any money from it; it exists to educate.

Thanks

@cooper - Ford doesn't make profit on an F150? Source?

If Ford, GM, and RAM are crap then why do people keep buying them, year after year after year? And for fleet sales; I see significantly more consumer big 3 trucks than the plainly or merchant marked fleet trucks.

In the last two half ton shootouts, compared to GM and Ford, the Tundra was:
Slowest - loaded, unloaded and Davis Dam
Too the longest distance to stop loaded and unloaded
Had the worst fuel economy
I really have nothing against Toyota, but they are falling behind, in general truck stuff.

@Grnzel1: Also, the Tundra went from an important vehicle for Toyota USA to a niche vehicle.

No big changes for the Tundra until it gets a dedicated plant, if that ever happens...

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

5th in sales? Who's 4th?

@Red

The Tundra might not be my next truck, but I like a lot of what you get with that truck. No DI, no variable displacement. The DI and the variable displacement engineering are very cool ideas that don't always work as advertised.

My 2009 Silverado LS has neither and I've never had to spend money in the engine compartment apart from recommended service like fuel filters, oil changes, anti freeze, even after 80 k miles.

Unfortunately GM no longer makes an LS motor like my 4.8... If you could buy one today with a six speed I'd do it at the drop of a hat.

@papa jim: Back in '11 when I was shopping for my next truck, the current one being a GMC Sierra 4x4 ext cab with the 4.8, I wanted a Sierra with the 4.8 and 6 speed, but couldn't have it. Bummer....

re: 4.8 LS motor and 6 spd trans

NoQDRTundra

If I was going to buy an older LS powered 4x4 GMC or Chevy I wouldn't care as much about needing the 6 spd because you probably would have a low range option for off road that makes the 6sp less of an issue in my opinion.

I'd pay for it with worse highway mileage but I don't get on the Interstate that much anyway, so for me the FE is not a big deal. I'm thinking that people make too much of the FE but I am a bit off center in that regard. I want a roomy cab and dependable V8 half ton truck, period.

I like your thinking though, and I bet your GMC 4x4 has been a solid truck.

"Tundra has a loyal following because of its perceived quality, reliability and general competence" There is no perception here this is a fact....

Posted by: Cooper | Sep 8, 2016 3:09:23 PM"

And this here is why Toyota continues to sell decades old technology to suckers for at or near MSRP. There actually is almost zero proof beyond anecdotal evidence that Toyota (or any of the Japanese car makers) is currently any more or less reliable than the rest as far as modern vehicles are concerned (well except for maybe FCA).

This wasn't the case in the 80s and 90s, I will give them that, but the industry as a whole, especially with trucks, has leveled out as far as long term quality and reliability is concerned. Toyota's marketing is stuck in the past just like their technology.

@ Red - I'll say there's a lot broken;
- Slowest - loaded, unloaded and Davis Dam
- Longest distance to stop loaded and unloaded
- Worst fuel economy
- Rust reputation is still true today

@ devilsadvocate - for once I agree with you 100%; Toy makers are still raking it in with past reliability reputation & glory...

@papa jim: It was and the only problem I had with the truck was rust related. I bought that GMC wholesale with 88K miles. Then I bought the Tundra, new, and started to learn after the first year that the QDR the Tundra fan boys and Toyota boast about was total BS. It too had a rust problem as the pickup bed was replaced for rust. It had other problems as well, all documented on my site. If you want a good read, review all the material I've posted.

Still an ugly truck. Too much fake plastic. It does not compare to the previous 2006 Tundra.

Whatever happened to the second Tundra the Anderson Cattle Ranch received to test again?

there isn't "a lot of complaints" about the aisin 6 speed slipping, that's just one example of BS

Posted by: borla | Sep 8, 2016 5:16:54 PM

http://www.truedelta.com/Toyota-Tundra/transmission-problems-278
"Transmission slippage. Transmission fluid level checked out OK and was told the slippage is to protect the system when cold. Interesting thing to build into a four wheeler... " 54k miles
"Transmission not shifting into 4th then not into 3rd. Code to replace it. On way to shop wouldn't get out of 1st. Rebuilt torque converter which caused the damage to the tranny. Tranny rebuilt. Had to bring back 4 days later to replace leaking rear seal. "
"Inspect Shuttering in driveline - later identified as bad Torque Converter"
"Transmission not shifting properly. Hesitant to downshift."
"Trany slipping"- 34k miles

http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tundra-problems-maintenance-repair-dealer-warranty-issues/120696-famous-transmission-tc-slipping-issues.html

"Bought an '07 Tundra with 66,000 miles just recently and now have 68,000 roughly and have started to noticed that when it is cold it tends to slip in first gear once I slow down and take off again. I figured at first it was just really low geared but then took it out and when it started to slip, I put the pedal down and it kind of lagged out and then jumped violently forward. I did some reading and it seems like there are a few other people who have experienced this. Looked at a few TSBs and figured I better call the dealership. Called and they looked up the VIN# and said it hasn't had a 60,000 mile servicing yet and that it could be a simple tranny fluid change to solve the problem. From what I've read..... does not seem like it is. Now I know these services are great and I'm going to go ahead and throw the money down for one but I'm just worried that I'll get it all the way back to find that it is still doing it. Nearest dealership is about an hour away. Any suggestions? Should I take the TSB in with me and have them check it out or what?" - curtyj23

http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tundra-problems-maintenance-repair-dealer-warranty-issues/114295-2012-tundra-crewmax-transmission-problem.html
"2800 miles on my new truck, I'm driving down the road when suddenly the check engine light, traction light and 4LO light come on. Seems intermittently the truck won't shift out of 3rd. I take the truck to the dealer and they can't figure it out. Let it cool over night and hook up computer, still don't know. Bring Toyota Engineer in, he doesn't know. Engineer says put a new transmission in send this one back to Toyota to figure it out." - RacerX 2012 Tundra Crewmax

"Hey guys... just joined this site as I recently bought a 2012 crew max. Had it two months and just had to have it towed to dealer. Had issue with violent 3-2 and 2-1 downshifts. Quickly went to misshifts each way. Then had blinking 4lo light, chech engine, trac light. Called dealer and they had me flatbed it. They don't know what it is and say they've contacted toyota. Speculate I'll get new tranny or new truck. Sounds similar to racerx."

http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tundra-problems-maintenance-repair-dealer-warranty-issues/581514-2015-transmission-failure.html

"I don't know if transmissions are a problem with Tundras or not, but my 2014 is on transmission #3 now. The truck has 27k miles on it now. The first went out around 5k, the second around 15k. The third has been fine so far. No lift, no off roading, never even seen a dirt road."
- Turtle9343 4/27/16

http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tundra-problems-maintenance-repair-dealer-warranty-issues/516818-transmission-slipping-3.html
"I'm having a similar issue with my 2015 cm...Ive noticed that the truck will not shift from 1st into 2nd gear right away it hesitates then it kicks into 2nd a bit harder then the other gears?? i think that its time for me to take it to the dealer for them to check it...with 5800 miles..but because it doesn't happen all the time there most likely gonna tell me that truck is working normal. please advise."
"Any Updates? Mine is doing the same thing for the last 6 months but i finally got a 2727 code torque converter lock up issue. I Changed the fluid no help seems to be gradually worse. It is booked in a week from now for a new torque converter and shift kit and look over the entire tranny while it is out"

http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tundra-problems-maintenance-repair-dealer-warranty-issues/616378-transmission-issues-fuel-issue-disguised-transmission-issues.html

http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tundra-problems-maintenance-repair-dealer-warranty-issues/263033-transmission-problem.html

http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tundra-problems-maintenance-repair-dealer-warranty-issues/440850-2014-5-7-transmission-symptom.html

http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tundra-drivetrain/68621-transmission-slipping.html

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/11053/toyota/tundra/toyota-tundra-transmission-problems

Bonus:
http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tundra-problems-maintenance-repair-dealer-warranty-issues/446330-2015-tundra-platinum-not-so-happy.html
2015 Tundra Platinum, 2100 miles
Leaking rear main seal. Broken HVAC. Rusty tow hooks.

As I was listing some of the links I found, I'm also amazed at how many guys have front & rear differential issues. Toyota always hyped how heavy duty the Tundra differentials are, yet there are a ton of guys that had to get their diffs rebuilt or replaced, not to mention all the CV axle and driveshaft failures. Most failed well before 60k miles.
http://www.truedelta.com/Toyota-Tundra/transmission-problems-278

@Bandit: If you would like more info, check out my site.

Thanks

@Bandit

How did the electronics check out?

The traction light coming on got my interest. I've had my Silverado since 2011 and it's never done it, at least not that I can remember.

I would understand it if your wheels and tires were slipping on wet pavement...

I'll give credit were credit is due.
The TSC system the Tundra uses is invasive, especially on slippery surfaces; engage the ALSD and it becomes much less invasive and works pretty well. I used the TSC to test for black ice; snap the gas pedal and if it engaged then slippery surface. This was especially useful during winter months.

Now, for a head scratcher: the GX 460 comes with front and rear e-lockers as reported by THQ. Here's a quote from the recent article ".

Plus, the GX460 offers Active Traction Control (A-TRAC) which also helps adjust to off-road conditions and makes use of both electronically locking front and rear differentials. Yep, front AND rear differentials."

Why in the heck does a Toyota luxury vehicle have lockers in the front and rear when the Tundra TRD Pro, an OFF-ROAD vehicle, doesn't have a single locker? Toyota's truck program is haphazard at best.

@bandit,

yup, like I said, "a lot" is BS

same trans since 2007 so there is what 600-700K of the trans on the road if we say there are 75K a year sold for the last 9 years.

and you found what, a handful?

I can google any part for any truck and find a few complaints and issues, the tundra 6 speed is way down on the list, at this point it's probably the most proven trans on the 1/2 ton market. I didn't even count all the other toyota and lexus models they use and used it in.

nice try though