Food fight!!!

GM sells more trucks than Ford. GM sells more midsize than Toyota. Who's left for GM to beat at this point?

GM needs 2 trucks to compete, Ford still number 1 in the half ton segment as is the case for the last 40 years or so......

Maybe this will light a fire under Toyoda to put a formidable engine in the Tacoma. The 3.5 is a joke!

I called it!

The Titan XD is a sales failure.

Who wants an ultra-expensive truck that's ugly? Who wants a truck that takes the miserable weight, fuel economy, and price of a heavy duty and mixes it with the low payload and towing capacity of a light duty?

This truck has an identity crisis. They should have focused efforts on the Frontier instead.

Can someone explain the sales surge of the Frontier?

Wow? why are Ford fans in such denial? who cares... when the checks deposited it goes in the same account.. Bottom Line is GM is selling more trucks than Ford.. It just is what it is... its not that they have to, its a marketing strategy that has worked for them since GM bought Chevy back in 1918... Everybody does it... its like ford edge and Lincoln mkx.. same exact veh with Lincoln just being "prettier" bet ford doesn't care which one they sell as long as they sell one...
you guys just need to get over it...
Pick your brand, be constructive (because our economy needs both companies to be successful) and just quit acting like a bunch of whinny school girls..

Go ford your number one

They can't beat one truck automaker.

john belushi - food fight. Animal house. And right out of the gate. That's a good one for a Monday morning!

Incentives moving product.

F Series still the best selling truck in US 40 years running.

All the trucks GMCs and Chevys in the world couldn't pull GM out of its bankruptcy... FMC has never had that issue.

My Honda dealer guy says they have 12 on the lot and have only sold one since they came out. He thinks the sales numbers are what is sold to dealers, not dealers sold to customers....

The high mid-size truck sales are proof that there exists a large market for smaller-than-full-size trucks. From what I hear, the Tacoma, GM twins, and Ridgeline are all being produced at capacity but are still not being manufactured in sufficient numbers to meet demand.

The mid-size market has much more room to grow because several of the large manufacturers do not produce trucks. Every new mid-size that enters the market will cause the market to grow rather than taking market share from existing mid-sizers. After all, the mid-size market grew after the reintroduction of the GM twins and again after the reintroduction of the Ridgeline. The most sensible strategy for the manufacturers would be for FCA to produce the Jeep pickup as well as a Mitsubishi Triton-based Dakota (or simply sell the Fiat Fullback here); Ford to reintroduce the Ranger to the U.S.; and Hyundai/Kia to develop a BOF mid-sized truck (which I hear they will do in Australia after 2020).

@NITRO

YOUR COMMENT IS IRRELEVANT. FORD TRIED THE 2 TRUCK APPROACH. REMEMBER THE LINCOLN BLACKWOOD OR MARK LT? THEY FAILED.

Colorado: with 35.8" rear leg room space crew cab I might just have to go sit in one to see how comfortable my passengers would be on a long trip. But the 6'0" bed length is just too close to the size of a 5.5' short box. GM says it's 6'2", but really only 6'0" at the top when the tailgate is closed. Go measure one. I did! Because in reality, a midsize is really all I need, but their boxes just don't amount to the length of boxes made on small size pickups from the 80's and 90's. 224.6" overall length will easily fit into a 235" long garage too. The competition is great! Keeps all these manufacturers from resting on their laurels.

@ OXI

WHATS WRONG? UPSET THAT THE TACO IS STARTING TO FEEL OLD AND THAT SOME NEW FOLKS ARE GAINING GROUND?

Go ford the best never rest not like the Twinkie sisters shakevrolet and garbage motors company or gmc.

It's amazing they can produce that many trucks in 8 months!

@Mark Williams, maybe you've answered this already but,

When it says f-series, does that mean just the f-150, or does that include f-250, f-350, f-450 and so on?

Same with Silverado, is that only the 1500? Or does that include the 2500 and so on?

If they mix the half tons w/ the HDs, is there a breakdown of just the 1/2 tons?

@C, F-series means the whole F150>F-whatever they stop at. Same with GM and Ram, it includes the 1/2ton > whatever... The only truck selling just 1/2ton is the tundra and titan.

Price is probably a large part of the reason for the increase in Nissan Frontier sales. The Frontier is now the most affordable pickup truck on the market. I have seen new ones priced at under $17K. Base Colorados and regular cab half-tons are pretty affordable too, but not that affordable. When dealers are asking $14k or $15K for five-year-old 4-cylinder Ford Rangers with 40K or more miles, it makes sense to spend just a little more to buy a new Frontier. Many of the new buyers are probably fleets replacing their 2011 Rangers coming off 5-year leases.

The other thing going for the Frontier is its manageable size. It is the only pickup now on the market with what I consider to be reasonable dimensions. All the other trucks, including the other mid-size trucks, are too big. Ideal dimensions for me are roughly 200 inches long by 73 inches wide by 68 inches tall with a turning circle under 40 feet. The Frontier comes close except for its awful 43-foot turning circle.

Why Ford people don't accept gm sale more pickup why do you think Ford put all in one basket is series it's marketing strategy 150to 450 or 550 etc ,,too look good ,,

Colorado falls to 3rd and Canyon to 5th being out sold by Honda. GM midsize truck are a failure. Down here in Phoenix they are fleet specials.

Everyone who said the midsize segment is dead and there was no market anymore was wrong.

Nitro makes a good point. If you want to talk Balackwood and Mark LT, GM created a third truck, the Cadillac XT to compete with that. This proves Nitro's point even further.

The fact is GM needs two (2) half ton trucks and (2) HD trucks, to compee with Ford's one of each.

GM is doing fairly well with mid-size trucks but at the cost of not having any new vans. GM got out of the new full-size van market and gave their small cargo van market to a rebadged Nissan. Ford is doing well with their cargo vans.

Ford Transit crosses 100,000 units sales YTD in August! 101,808 units sold in 2016 - up 34.1%!

In conclusion, F-Series YTD sales of 527,847 units vs. Silverado sales of 380,176 units. New Super Duty on sale now and will only increase Ford's lead. Get ya some!

Can someone explain the sales surge of the Frontier?

@Mr Knowitall

The whole mid size segment is too big to ignore but it's only selling about 20% of the totals for the rest of pickup production (half ton, 3/4 and 1 ton).

So, GM and Honda bring a new product to market and it creates some buzz. Nissan choses to be the value-leader and gets a lot "buzz" that Honda and GM created for them at no cost.

Unless Ford shows up with another iteration of the Ranger the Nissan strategy looks pretty smart. Their small truck lags in few areas but is mostly a pretty good little ride if you want a compact truck.

GM needs to do what Ford did when they re-badged the Lincoln Mk LT as the Platinum trim in 2009, but on a wider scale.

They need to bring the additional tech and options from the Sierra into the relevant trim levels on Silverado maybe as option packages or tiers of trim (for example Ford has XL, STX, XLT, FX2/4, Lariat, etc etc etc and each of those has tiers within the range such as sport, luxury/chrome package etc) then they need to re launch the Silverado High Country but all cowboy'ed out to fill the Laramie Longhorn/King Ranch/ 1794 segment, and slide the Denali into the top spot as the city slicker truck in their range.

That would end the "Overall Sales" debate once and for all.

GM might beat Ford if they would copy Ford colors. Chevy just came out with a new red and brown but they still do not hold a candle to Fords red and browns.
The new Ranger will walk all over the GM twins just due to the Ford colors...
I was waiting for the new 2017 red for the Colorado, but that red does not do much for me. If the ZR2 comes out in the brown the concept is, I will buy it...

GM needs to do what Ford did when they re-badged the Lincoln Mk LT as the Platinum trim in 2009, but on a wider scale.

They need to bring the additional tech and options from the Sierra into the relevant trim levels on Silverado maybe as option packages or tiers of trim (for example Ford has XL, STX, XLT, FX2/4, Lariat, etc etc etc and each of those has tiers within the range such as sport, luxury/chrome package etc) then they need to re launch the Silverado High Country but all cowboy'ed out to fill the Laramie Longhorn/King Ranch/ 1794 segment, and slide the Denali into the top spot as the city slicker truck in their range.

That would end the "Overall Sales" debate once and for all.
Posted by: devilsadvocate | Sep 12, 2016 10:45:17 AM

Great post.

GM needs to make one great super truck.

But GMC dealers won't have anything to sell? Well, too bad. They can sell the Silverado and Silverado Denali or whatever they want to call it. The Sierra is going down and only a fraction of sales and lost over 17% last month.

But the Sierra sells better in Canada? Well, the Mark LT sold better in Mexico and Ford stopped selling that in Mexico too. It's all Ford Platinum now in all countries.

GM could easily make up for the Sierra sales loss with the one Silverado super truck line and perhaps beat Ford F-Series in a few years if they once and for all get the Silverado right. But GM may not have the guts to do it.

Explain the sales surge of the Frontier? Easy.

The buzz surrounding the new Colorado is getting people into the market for a midsize truck. But when they realize that a crew cab 4x4 with some options is going to put them at $40,000 they nearly pass out. So then they decide to shop around because by this time they are really excited about a mid size pickup and they are only being stopped by price.

So they drive down the road to a Nissan dealership and find out that for $31,000 they can get a crew cab 4x4 with the same nice options. And $9K is a lot of money. So they leave with a Frontier.

I have no idea what GM was thinking. It would take an idiot to pay $40K for a Colorado when you can buy the Silverado Z71 for less money with rebates. GM engineers are historically idiots, but apparently their upper brass aren't very bright either.

And people can say what they want about the Frontier being "old and outdated"....but old and outdated means they've had 11 years to perfect the truck. THAT is a good thing.

@GM Truck Guy

The average buyer for US made trucks today is aiming down-market, which is one of the reasons that trucks like the GM mid-sizers, the Honda and even the Frontier are creating some buzz.

Can someone explain the sales surge of the Frontier?

@Mr Knowitall

Nissan officials claim that the surge of Frontier sales has to do with more 4 cylinder engines being available. It should also be stated that the Nissan added more incentives on the Frontier and has the cheapest MSRP.

The lack of Nissan Titan halfton trucks doesn't hurt either.

Overall the Frontier is still in 3rd place in mid-size trucks and dead last in full-size. Looking at how they are doing overall, it is not looking good. The Frontier is on borrowed time and the new Titan has been a sales bomb.

GM could easily make up for the Sierra sales loss with the one Silverado super truck line and perhaps beat Ford F-Series in a few years if they once and for all get the Silverado right. But GM may not have the guts to do it.

Posted by: GM Truck Guy | Sep 12, 2016 10:59:06 AM

Exactly, I would hazard a guess that if the tech/options from GMC found their way over to Chevrolet at similar trim levels and price point 99% of GMC buyers/shoppers would hold their nose and buy a Chevy due to brand loyalty.

Also, one correction to your post. GM as a brand is already outselling Ford on trucks as shown above. They need to consolidate though, there is no reason to keep selling 2 identical vehicle lines with only minor differences in trim/technology offerings between the two.

Using Ford as a model the following is how I recommend the position themselves:

LS = XL
LT = STX
SLE = XLT
(launch a new 2wd only trim) SS = FX2
Z71 = FX4
SLT/LTZ combine into LTZ = Lariat
High Country = King Ranch
Denali = Platinum

Do it!!!!

@CHRIS

SO IF GM DECIDED TO HALT PRODUCTION OF ONE OF ITS TRUCKS, DO YOU THINK THAT THOSE LOYAL TO THAT BRAND WOULD SHIFT TO A NEW MAKER OR STAY WITH GM? EVERY CAR/TRUCK COMPANY MAKES MULTIPLE VEHICLES ON THE SAME SHARED PLATFORMS. IT HELPS WITH COSTS YET GIVES PEOPLE THE ABILITY TO CHOSE A DIFFERENT LOOKING VEHICLE. AN EXAMPLE WOULD BE WHY FORD MAKES BOTH A FORD EXPEDITION AND A LINCOLN NAVIGATOR.

Congrats to GM for taking a commanding sales lead over its competitors. Even Ford with its 2 truck strategy grouped together under the 1 banner can't keep up.

@Papa Jim, GM got some buzz when they brought back the failed Colorado from the dead. But how about those margins?

Plus the ancient Frontier sales are way too close to GM midsize numbers for GM to yell "mission accomplished". With the Ranger coming back into the fray (once the compact/midize sales leader just a few years ago), it is way too early to call the GM midsizers a success and could be lights out for GM.

GM sells more trucks (midize + fullsize) overall? But again, how about those margins? Besides, it's comparing apples w/oranges: Full-size to midsize trucks. Different segments/4 models vs 1.

devils,
I agree with what you are saying but I also have one correction to your post. GM is not a brand. F-Series is still outselling the Silverado and Sierra combined year to date.

Although they are getting close, check back at the end of the 12 months.

I agree with the rest of your post, but it will be a miracle if it happens. I feel we will still be stuck with 2 different truck lines.

The time to consolidate was during the bankruptcy. GM says look at the Sierra sales numbers as to why they cannot get rid of it.

I say look F-Series sales numbers. Ford is beating GM with 1 truck line vs 2.

"Using Ford as a model the following is how I recommend the position themselves:

LS = XL
LT = STX
SLE = XLT
(launch a new 2wd only trim) SS = FX2
Z71 = FX4
SLT/LTZ combine into LTZ = Lariat
High Country = King Ranch
Denali = Platinum"

Do it GM and shock the world in 2018!!!!!!!

I will also consolidate things even further, make the LTZ an off-road pkg only that has nothing to do with trim level. The FX4 pkg for Ford is an off-road pkg now and is available on all trim levels.

A note on the Silverado.

Silverado doesn't have a top of the line truck. Half of the tanking Sierra sales are Denali trim. So GM could easily get rid of the Sierra altogether and make the Silverado its top of the line Platinum/Denali truck.

It makes no sense to keep the Sierra around just for the Denali (half of all sales) and not give the Platinum/Denali truck to the Silverado.

This would be hard for GMC fanbois to take at first, but it would be better for the company overall.

GM sells more trucks (midize + fullsize) overall? But again, how about those margins? Besides, it's comparing apples w/oranges: Full-size to midsize trucks. Different segments/4 models vs 1.

Posted by: Greg | Sep 12, 2016 11:30:14 AM

"In the full-size pickup segment, it's worth noting (although not directly reflected in the charts below) that if you add the last three months of Chevrolet and GMC full-size pickup sales totals together, GM is closing the gap on Ford. In fact, combined year-to-date totals for Chevy and GMC full-size pickups put them behind Ford by less than 1,300 units; in June it was more than 15,000 units."

Ford will be behind just GM full size trucks soon enough.

You can tell how serious GM takes their Chevy trucks by looking at twitter.

Chevy Truck Communications manager Tom Wilkinson tweets:
https://twitter.com/twilkinson70/with_replies

2016: 1 post about Stpehn Colbert
2015: 2 nonsense posts, and 1 post saying the Silverdo was toughened up
2014:0 posts

Ford Truck Communications manager Mike Levine tweets:
https://twitter.com/mrlevine/with_replies

Mike is all over the place working and tweeting and at the shows and in the articles. He takes trucks seriously.

I hope GM has new people working on and marketing the next gens.

@Gm truck guy, that is exactly my point, Gm should drop the Sierra and make a Silverado super truck, most people do not see the point in sierra/silverado other than the denali trim on the sierra, it still makes no sense to have Sierra, unless Gm just doesnt have the balls to do it. Someone mentioned Lincoln truck, it never went away really, hence why the trim levels increased on the F series trucks, smart move again by Ford.

johnny doe,
Comparing a 1/2 ton to a midsize makes more sense then comparing a 1/2 to a 1 ton. For the following reasons.

1. Both the 1/2 and mid are generally a hack used to drive to work.

2. The capability difference between a 1 ton and a 1/2 ton is far greater than the difference between a 1/2 ton and a midsize.

3. 1/2 ton and midsize come under the same CAFE regulations, unlike HDs.

@5-Speed ~200 inch ideal overall length.
Here's a list with overall length should you decide to include an extra cab or crew cab.

Dimensions organized accordingly: Rear Legroom, Bed length, Overall length (235” std garage):

Ram Quad__34.7"__6'4"__229.0"
Ram Crew__40.3"__6'4"__237.9" Only crew cab with 6’ box that is very close to being garageable.
Colorado___35.8"__6'0"__224.6". Bed is 6'2" at top only!
Tacoma____32.6"__6'1"__221.3". Bed actually 6'1.5".
F150 Crew__43.7"__6'6"__243.7"
F150 Quad__33.5”__6’6”__231.9” (250.5”, 8’ bed)
Silverado___40.9"__6'6"__239.6"
Ridgeline___36.7"__5'4"__210.0"
Titan_Crew _38.5”__6’6”__242.8” (38.5” small for 242.8”?)
Titan Quad__38.5”__5’6”__228.7”
Frontier_____33.6”__6”1”__219.4”
TundraQuad_34.7”__6’6”__228.9” (247.8”, 8’ bed)
Tundra Crew_42.5”__5’6”__228.9” (crew cab with 6’6” not avail?)

Error on the 6'2" bed of Colorado. It should read bottom only.

GM getting rid of Sierra would be dumb IMO. GM typically sells more full-size trucks than Ford does (something like 14 out of the last 20 years). However GM doesn't have this 'best selling' BS to defend. If Ford stumbles just once and Chevy outsells them that 40 year record is gone and it's huge news. Mean while GM is quietly selling more trucks without the stress and fire sales to keep the 'title'. It seems that GM is in catbird seat when it comes to truck sales.

Now Chevy had been feeling pressure from Dodge but I suspect that if gas goes up and truck sales tank that Jeep will probably be the only thing left of Chrysler and will probably be sold off to another company.

GM has done quite well. This is good to see.

I suppose there will always be a high flyer in anything from sports to business, anything competitive.

GM is shown to be the most competitive, irrespective of how they got there ................ legitimately. Two brands, who cares.

I think Ford's problem was it's reliance of the new F-150 at the expense of not having a decent midsize to boost numbers.

Ford could of been number one if it had a better "game" plan.

@Angelo Pietroforte, why does your titan kingcab and crewcab have the same rear leg room?

@Gm truck guy, that is exactly my point, Gm should drop the Sierra and make a Silverado super truck, most people do not see the point in sierra/silverado other than the denali trim on the sierra, it still makes no sense to have Sierra, unless Gm just doesnt have the balls to do it. Someone mentioned Lincoln truck, it never went away really, hence why the trim levels increased on the F series trucks, smart move again by Ford.
Posted by: Nitro | Sep 12, 2016 12:34:44 PM

Nitro, devilsadvocate, GM Truck Guy & Chris/Dave Z or whoever you are,

Put the pipe down. GM is NOT getting rid of the Sierra. GM sells more trucks than Ford and that's the bottom line. Sierra is not going anywhere. The 2019 Sierra I am told by my buddy bvonscott will blow away the 2019 F-150 and the 2019 Silverado, too. Good job GM!

@uh huh.
Yah, I noticed that today. Let me double check. Maybe their spec sheet was not very clear. Stay tuned.

@uh huh Why 38.5" rear legroom shown on both Quad & Crew for Titan.
Because that's what their brochure shows. I've noted this off to the right of the comparision. https://www.nissanusa.com/content/dam/nissan/request-brochure/en/2016/pdf/2016-nissan-titan-en.pdf

What's really interesting is that I just noticed a Tundra Crew 5.5' box in the parking lot and it seems to have a snubby shorter front end with the windshield coming much more forward. Maybe slightly cab forward design. Then when I look at the comparison table I see:
TundraQuad_34.7”_ 6’6”__228.9” If they increased the quad legroom by 5.1" they'd be at 234" and garageable even with the 6.5' box. I couldn't find length for 6.6' box and crew cab combo. They do have, in my opinion, a bit too oversized 42.5" crew legroom area. I suppose people that never garage their trucks love the oversized crew legroom area.

@uh huh
Because that is what their brochure shows:
https://www.nissanusa.com/content/dam/nissan/request-brochure/en/2016/pdf/2016-nissan-titan-en.pdf