This may just be the replacement for the old 7-lugged F-250 "Light" and F-150 7700 models that Ford sold back in the early 2000s. Makes sense as the new Super Duty trucks are gargantuan in comparison and are almost too much truck for some contractors.

Plus--with the Titan in mind, this model may get a diesel sized between the Scorpion V8 and Lion V6. Interesting...

Great Job Ford!

Hmm, I wonder if Ford is starting to take steps to move the F150 to a gas mileage exempt status.

Is that an IFS Super Duty you have spotted? Say it aint so! How ever will Ford kids take their new truck offroad without them breaking in half? Heresy I tell you!

"who is dumb enough to buy a pick up for fuel mileage?"

Just about any small business/ fleet owner who is trying to be mindful of total cost of ownership and how that affects their bottom line.

If two trucks have similar capabilities and one gets 15-20% better FE, all other things being equal which on do you think they will chose?

When you start talking about someone who has the money to throw down on a 40k+ truck for personal use, then yeah, probably becomes more of a formality, bragging rights at most.

The mileage exempt thing is probably more about Ford looking to lower their overal CAFE by migrating some of their trucks to a platform that is exempt from EPA standards (3/4ton and up). If it was a heavy F150 marketted to fleet buyers (they make up the vast majority of F150 sales) then it would take a lot of pressure off of Ford meeting the ever moving goalposts set by the current climate activists in charge of the EPA.

Can't wait to hear from all the Ford fan boys who trashed Nissan for running with a similar idea.

Myself, I've always loved the idea of a muscular half ton like the old F250 in place of the huge Ford HDs that are running around today.

V8 power, please.

Nissan was trashed because they devoted a product line to a 5/8 ton truck at 3/4 ton money - and arguably a hideous looking truck at that. I think is relatively easy for Ford and GM to offer a heavy 1/2 ton without much investment on their part or a new product line - just a check on the option sheet.

Since the cabs for F-series are all common again, this would make sense to me:

F-150 = Light duty half-ton (no change)
F-250 = Med duty w/IFS (pictured above)
F-350 = Med duty w/SFA (no change)
F-450 = Extra duty (no change)

Really, the F-250 change would hearken back to the pre-1997 F-250s with the twin I-beam or whatever it was (even for the 4x4 trucks). I'm not saying go back to twin I-beam, but an IFS F250 makes sense in the line up.

I wonder where the F-150 diesel version will fit. If it's a heavy half (F-200?), that's kind of different. Then the Ranger would be an F-100?

Does the Expedition share anything with the F-series trucks? And they need to bring the Excursion back (following that recent Bronco announcement).

Full floater rear axle.
Lot's of rotor surface on the front.
HD half-ton or F200 with diesel option is my thought.

papa jim loves the idea of a straw man argument.

My old F-150 had a GVW of 6,250 pounds, and the new XD's GVW is 8,800 pounds. They both have payloads in the 2,200 pound range! Yet the new XD weighs roughly 2,600 pounds more. Because of the weight, this hurts performance and fuel econom.y The XD crew-cab 4x4 configuration is only rated to tow 10,600 lbs. This vehicle should be rated heads and shoulders above the rest of the 1/2-ton competition, but it doesn't even come close. I don't call that progress.

I don't know why Papa Jim cries so much about Nissan. But I think it's 'cause he remembered for the first time since he hated Ford, that I used to love Ford.

The mileage exempt thing is probably more about Ford looking to lower their overal CAFE by migrating some of their trucks to a platform that is exempt from EPA standards (3/4ton and up). If it was a heavy F150 marketted to fleet buyers (they make up the vast majority of F150 sales) then it would take a lot of pressure off of Ford meeting the ever moving goalposts set by the current climate activists in charge of the EPA.

Posted by: devilsadvocate | Oct 13, 2016 12:18:44 PM

Ford is actually in a good position right now with total vehicle line up MPG average. With the 2.7L EPA rating and now the 3.5L GTDI. All their small cars are rated very good. If anything fiat should be doing that because their corporate ratings are in the tank.

Nissan was trashed because they devoted a product line to a 5/8 ton truck at 3/4 ton money - and arguably a hideous looking truck at that. I think is relatively easy for Ford and GM to offer a heavy 1/2 ton without much investment on their part or a new product line - just a check on the option sheet.
Posted by: Grnzel1 | Oct 13, 2016 1:00:05 PM

Yeah, the XD pretty much gets wiped out on paper (mpg, capacity, $$$) but Papa Jim will claim the XD is more comfortable. How many of each has he driven? The new Ford cabs are plenty comfortable. To some, perceived comfortability trumps everything else - especially GM guys who are jealous of Ford trucks. Overall, the Titan could have been the perfect fit for a lot of people's needs, but in my strong opinion it falls short. Nissan should have built their XD to be more capable than anything else in the 1/2-ton market, but they failed. The 2018 F-Series will be a final nail in the coffin.

Probably a 6.2L V8 F150 with a 8,800lbs GVWR.
Everyone will likely migrate large V8s to over the 8,600 threshold to avoid CAFE and gas guzzler taxes.

I would love someone to make me a regular cab pickup with a 10 foot bed. I would love such a truck for my work. They can do it too, they have the wheelbase for it but none of them do.

I have always agreed with Papa Jim about muscular half tons. A lot of F-250 guys don't want the solid front axle and would prefer the better ride. But Papa Jim fails to see any flaws in Nissan's approach. Nissan has no flaws? The problem with the XD is its weight, capability, fuel economy and copycate styling so the guys who might try Nissan just stick with what they are already buying. The XD doesn't actually solve anything except ride quality and that may be debatable or only a slight improvement at best. Ford fixed the weight issue with the new body, if they can just add more capability than any of the standard half tons and 1 or 2 mpgs better than a standard HD,Ford will have a winner.

Can't wait to hear from all the Ford fan boys who trashed Nissan for running with a similar idea.

Posted by: papajim | Oct 13, 2016 12:30:13 PM

Well said! Bunch of hypocrites Ford fan boys are.

The best never rest.

Ford must of been digging in their spare parts bin again trying to reuse old 8 lug sheels from the F250s on F150s to compete. Once again Ford is following and not leading. If Nissan did anything it got Ford to step up in quality.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2016/10/04/ford-brake-probe/91542602/

Like I've been saying.

Aluminium might not give the best cost to performance improvement that some seem to be thinking.

A steel midsizer like the Colorado is a shining star in what a pickup can be, even without the diesel.

A steel EcoDiesel Ram another example, 29mpg, not to bad a figure for a brick shape.

What is odd is Hinrichs's statement. Pickup benefit more than cars?

So if car were made out of aluminium they wouldn't weigh less, require lighter suspension, engines, drivetrains? Carry more weight, use less fuel.

Maybe I should have worked for Ford. You'd still have your steel F Series and the Ranger, both with diesel options. I'd be getting far better CAFE figure for Ford with their pickups.

The F-150 with the great (but expensive) 4.4 Lion V8 diesel. And the Ranger with the 5cyl diesel fitted to the Transit.

Commerical vehicles only benefit from extensive use of aluminium if used 24/7, not as a SUV/Car/daily driver.

CAFE regulations for pickups are more relaxed than cars.

So, one would assume if that is the case using alumimium would be more advantageous for cars.

Your FE comment is based not on real life FE results. The EcoBoost as has been shown can be a pig on fuel.

A Colorado will NOT have the same reduction in FE as a F-150 if driven the same.

Also initial purchase price of the F-150 for a similarly equipped vehicle as the Colorado will be a considerable amount more.

This argument of the additional load/tow advantage of the F-150 is straight from Ford marketing, and is of little relevance especially when the prime market for pickups is in fact a SUV/Car purchaser. It might really account for 25% of potential pickup customers.

Then look at the brands available, Ford isn't going to pickup another 25% of the market. The F-150 might actually reduce sales for Ford.

Ford has taken a large gamble and I really don't think it will pay off as well due to very competitive pickups.

The Colorado on the other hand will improve in sales.

The Titan will improve in sales when released and again, take sales away from the lighter HDs affecting Ford HD.

Ford will struggle to remain on top.

Keep on trying, all for one and one for all;)

This is not to say the F-150 is a bad or poor truck. Ether the F-150 will be overly expensive or is sold at a competitive price it will show in Frod's bottom line. It's more a poorer business decision at this point in time.

BREAKING NEWS:

2017 Ford Super Duty name Truck of Texas.

http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2016/10/13/2017-ford-f-series-super-duty-named-truck-texas.html

Let all the heaters talk smack about ford like always.

You know Government motors is gonna follow like always.

Wow this is a big news ,,,,

I think your confused ford is the government motors they took the close to zero interest loan on the terms the government would have a say in what they build. i.e turbo weed whackers.

Quote:
Does that mean that Ford did not get any money from the governement? Hardly. Congress decided that the best alternative for Ford was to get funds from the Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility (TALF), which is a government program for auto, student, and other consumer loans. These were very low-cost government loans to the tune of $5.9 billion that helped Ford tip-toe past bankruptcy and overhaul their factories to bring out more fuel-efficient technology. The Obama administration’s plans of having a million electric cars on the road by 2015 were being funneled through Ford and two other companies (Nissan and Tesla), and Ford fans had the audacity to call GM “Government Motors.”

My guess is it's an F-250 with 3.5 EcoBoost, 3.0 Lion diesel, hybrid and/or 10-speed.

Looks like ford should have came out with the Ranger in 2014

I wish I could go to a Ford dealer today and buy a brand new 1995 F250.

No smoke, no rust and no problems with the intake manifold.

I'm really not hard to please.

I wish I could go to a Ford dealer today and buy a brand new 1995 F250.

No smoke, no rust and no problems with the intake manifold.

I'm really not hard to please.
Posted by: papa jim | Oct 13, 2016 7:21:20 PM

Great pick! I wish Ford would go back to the 1995 era trucks. Ford has messed up their current trucks.

@papajim
I for one think nissan was on to something with their truck. Just poor execution. Would have neen much better at a lower cost slightly smaller size or with better fuel economy. In order to succeed it needs to be the best at SOMETHING

I wish I could go to a Ford dealer today and buy a brand new 1995 F250.

I'm really not hard to please.
Posted by: papa jim | Oct 13, 2016 7:21:20 PM

Yeah, sure you do. Another backhanded compliment from Ford Ranger Jim. Jim doesn't really know what he wants. He goes from Colorado to pretending to get exicted by the Nissan but didn't put up the money to buy one or used it as a stalking horse against the new Ford trucks. Now he is back to bashing Fords. A HD is great, outside of the additional cost(s); initial and on-going, but you haven't towed or hauled since the 1970s, so I'm not sure how it makes sense for you. Maybe for grocery getting.

Great job FORD, teach Nissan & the others how to do it right so they can all follow...again, YES!!!!

This Ford will come in all bed and cab sizes and a higher cargo capacity.

The XD crewcab format has a crappy 5.5' box and crappy cargo capacity.

Anyone saying that those sort of things don't matter either do not know the truck market or don't need a HD truck.

If the XD is towing its rated max, one will need to leave passengers at home and keep the box empty.

ANY I repeat ANY HD 3/4 ton will do a better job than the XD for the simple reason that they have more tow capacity and definitely more cargo capacity.

The XD is a 1/2 ton spec truck that wants to play with the big boys.

The Ford LD Super Duty in 2018 will be more capable and play with the big boys. That much I can tell you.

I'd buy a 2017 F-250 or wait for the 2018 F-250 LD over the XD any day of the week.

If I want a 1/2 ton I'll take F-150 over the XD any day of the week.

This XD truck misses the mark because it is a HD truck with capacities that aren't even LD class leading.

I am amazed the Fred Diaz the former CEO of Ram gave the ok for the XD and will wait to see what Ford offers in 2018.

I agree with papa jim. The XD is where its at. Great truck with much more GRUNT than those Fords and a V8 RUMBLE! I just got back from TFL who was riding in the new 10 speed EB. It sounds like my neighor's teenage son's Honda Civic! I am not joking! I ONLY BUY V8 TRUCKS for a reason.

I wish Ford would bring back the 1995 F-250. I just remembered for the first time that since I started liking GM that I used to love Fords. Im actually going to buy a full sized truck in a single cab for cheap if I don’t find a truck I love this year; just to get me by until something like the 2019 CHEVY SILVERADO comes out. Regular cab allows the truck to stay a reasonable length with a long bed. I Papa Jim is very satisfied with his Chevy Single cab which he says is very nice so bring on the single cabs.

Don't buy a 2018 F-250 light duty. Wait for the 2019 Silverado 1500 that will be all new and class leading and blow away anything from Ford. Ford is coming out too early with their trucks. GM has been watching the many mistakes Ford has made on Ford's dime and GM will make the better truck in the end.

GM wins and Ford loses again.

Like I said Ford is nervious about the Titan XD and the bottom ened of the HD market.

The Titan apears competitive in build and design.

Remember, for every Titan sold is one less light HD by one of the Big Three.

Since, Ford has the biggest chunk of the light HD market, Ford will take the biggest hit.

It seems the people who comment on this site are so wrapped up in bigger is better sooner or later will realise that just be bigger doesn't translate into better.

Is an upsized Big Mac meal better?

Good work Nissan on getting Frod to update their trucks. I do hope Nissan does a good job on the Frontier as well so Nissan can teach Frod how to update the Ranger.

All the small things are better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ht5RZpzPqw

I am curious as to the benefit of 8 lug nuts per wheel over 6. I can understand having 5 or 6 lug nuts per wheel is better than 4 but I don't understand 8. Can someone who knows explain this.

It ain't over till it's over.

Nissan is bringing a very solid competitor to market in the Titan, offering a serious diesel (unlike FCA) with its 5.0 Cummins and the new V8 gasser.

RAM and Toyota are still humping half ton models that are effectively ten years old. Go drive a 2016 RAM and a new Titan side by side. You'll see.

Pickup drivers in the suburbs are going to discover that Ford's turbo engines are not economical in typical boulevard driving, so why not get a big V8 Titan or Chevy?

How can anyone say the XD has failed when Nissan hasn't even marketed it yet? They are doing an extremely cautious rollout. Until dealers have all configurations on the lot why would they spent millions on marketing? The rollout is going exactly as Nissan planned.

My belief is the new Titan and Titan XD will produce sales better than many of the armchair experts state. Here's why.

The XD is only targeting a very small percentage of the pickup market.

When the full range of half ton Titans are let loose on the public there will be a far wider range of pickups to suit a wide range of prospective customers. Nissan stated it will aim to reach 85% of the pickup consumer market.

Ford is only reaching 90% of the market currently because it lacks a midsize pickup. Ram is in a similar position.

Toyota with the Tundra and Taco is reaching an audience of, I'd say, 75% of potential customers.

The only manufacturer hitting a home run at the moment is GM with its GMC and Chev branded pickups.

When you sum it all up you see Nissan with the XD is only hitting the bottom end of the HD sales. Then add that all of the Titan XDs were mainly diesel and high end models this shrinks it down even further.

If one now looks at the Titan numbers logically it appears Nissan isn't doing that poorly.

Nissan could sell over 10 000 Titans a month .......... plus add the Frontier and Nissan could have 15 000 to 20 000 pickups sold a month.

Mulitply this by 12 months and you could have a quarter of a million pickups sold by Nissan a year. The sales other than the Frontier will come from the other manufacturers. I see Ford taking the biggest hit.

I hope Nissan does well. It makes an honest product.

It wouldn't surprise me to see a truck between the 7700# GVW F150 and the current 9-10,000# GVW F250. The Full-floater rear axle would indicate that this would still focus on very high payload capacity. This combination could let them leverage the lighter/cheaper front half from the F150 platform coupled with even more payload than the high GVW F150 can handle. Would make a great basis for a service body. Those trucks roll around at the upper limit of SRW weights (DRW rucks are way heavier, of course) but many hardly ever tow much. That would make them work just fine as a CNG V8, or high mile diesel with the V6 Lion. Technically, the Transit Cab/Chassis fits this bill, too, but the F150 front end is still little more beefy.

I am curious as to the benefit of 8 lug nuts per wheel over 6. I can understand having 5 or 6 lug nuts per wheel is better than 4 but I don't understand 8. Can someone who knows explain this.
Posted by: Jeff S | Oct 14, 2016 12:12:49 AM

@Jeff S

It'a all about clamping force. You can apply more clamping pressure (and more evenly) with 8 bolts than you can with 5 or six.

The screws and bolts commonly used for this purpose need to have high tensile strength, so increasing the number of bolts simply improves the crunch.

@papa jim--Thanks. I have noticed that many half tons and midsizes have gone to a 6 bolt pattern on their 2 wheel drive. My 85 Mighty Max had a 6 bolt pattern but I don't recall seeing an 8 bolt.

Papa Jim directly answered the question but there's an implied difference as well.

The 8 bolt axles are usually much beefier and stronger, the wheel and axle bearing size can be 2 times or larger than the one that is usually used on a half ton truck.

That was the original use and purpose of Ford's 7700 and 8800 7 bolt option.

Those trucks had stronger axles and could take the abuse of being a daily plow truck and other commercial type workcycles.

It's not that the F150 can't do these things, it's how fast it will wear out or break while doing those things. Just like you CAN tow a 8000lb trailer with an F150, you probably wouldn't want to do it daily with a F150.

The titan falls into that category as well, the best comparison for the Titan XD is a slightly lighter duty version of a RAM 2500. Both have independent suspensions, but the XD rides nicer and holds/tows slightly less.

I think Alex called it. This is a F150 9900 package with a 3.5 liter EB and the 3.0 liter Diesel has an up to 13,500 tow capacity mated to the 10 speed transmission. It probably has slightly greater load capacity compared to the F150 and the same maximum tow. Is plow prep ready and has bigger brakes/axles/bearings. AKA commercial grade 1/2 ton.

@steve
Titan xd not a failure? It's been out for over a year now. Sales have been dismal. That is called a failure. My local dealer is advertising 10,000 off msrp right now. If you think nissan expected this, then nissan has EXTREMELY low expectations. And yes they have been marketing it. They even spent millions on a superbowl ad for it. That was 8 months ago.......

If the 8 lug wheel is for a beefier axle and bearing then could this also be a way for Ford to reclassify these trucks into a heavier category so that they would not be subject to the more restrictive fuel efficiency standards. If so wouldn't Ram look at this as well since they are the most vulnerable to the stricter standards. It seems that increasing the capacity of these trucks would not only make them more capable of heavier loads but to put them in a different category.

Like I said Ford is nervious about the Titan XD and the bottom ened of the HD market.

Posted by: Big Willy | Oct 14, 2016 12:12:17 AM

Big Al/Big Willy or whatever you call yourself from down under; I don't think Ford is one bit nervous about the XD; at approx 585 000 more full size trucks sold than Titan...I don't think so.

Try keep up sir or stick with what you know; is your BT50 still running?...

Titans are on the lots and they are advertising them. An electronic billboard by my house had all Titans at $10,000 off a couple weeks ago. I was driving past it today and the billboard now says $11,500 off all Titans.

Already have heavy duty F150s.

could this also be a way for Ford to reclassify these trucks into a heavier category so that they would not be subject to the more restrictive fuel efficiency standards.

@Jeff S

It's not about fuel efficiency. CAFE has morphed into a tedious exercise in political correctness. Travel the streets of your state capitol or Washington DC and you see Suburbans and Tahoes everwhere. Not a Prius in sight. Hypocrites!

No different than the way all of these so called public servants send their own kids to elite private schools while YOUR kids attend unionized public schools. I don't think you can empty a bleeping waste basket in a public school today unless you have a union card.

Bottom line--it would be WAY simpler just to repeal CAFE standards altogether. Gas is $2 bucks a gallon--who cares about FE!!!

@papa jim--A heavier truck with more capacity would change its classification and would not require as strict a CAFE standards meaning not as high of an mpgs required. It would also be a marketing point that Ford could use saying that their trucks could haul a heavier payload than the competition. One reason why many of the smaller trucks have grown to a larger midsize is to be put in a larger size category with less restrictive CAFE standards. It is hard to meet these higher CAFE standards and their is only so much you can do to lighten a vehicle or how small an engine you can put into it. Manufacturers have to game the CAFE rules in order to comply with them. You will never get rid of all the regulations and the CAFE standards most likely will never be reversed.