Ram 1500 Part of EPA's FCA Diesel Emissions Violation Allegations

Ram ED engine II

The EPA has issued a "notice of violation" against Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, alleging that its turbocharged 3.0-liter V-6 EcoDiesel engine used in 2014-16 Ram 1500 pickup trucks and Jeep Grand Cherokee SUVs may have auxiliary software that can alter the emissions in a way not fully disclosed by the automaker. And by failing to disclose this software and selling the vehicle in the U.S., FCA may have violated Clean Air Act. FCA is the parent company of Ram, Jeep and several other brands.

Not long ago, a class-action lawsuit was brought against FCA and Cummins Inc., accusing of them of similar charges. That suit targets Ram heavy-duty pickups only. Cummins denied the allegations and even threatened to countersue.

We've driven quite a few versions of the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel, most recently in our Texas Truck Showdown 2016. During that Challenge, the EcoDiesel actually got better fuel economy when driving around Houston near its maximum payload.

To read the full story at Cars.com, click here.

Cars.com image by Evan Sears

 

Ram Track 1 II

 

 

Comments

Mike,
EPA doesn't acusse FCA of cheating device. Big difference between VW and FCA. EPA is carefully chosing the words , you should too.


Yes they do Ram. Working fiat damage control on a Sunday too? You must be making bank on OT. Oh wait you are not a FCA telemarketer. Let me guess, you will say you an engineer. Very common tactic to try and prove validity. FYI EPA found 8 cheating devices as unregistered. The report is clear. Better get some more canned responses ready

Why is ram trying to focus on Fords direct injection. Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Volvo, GM, Kia, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes, and countless others have direct injection along with turbo charging with direct injection. No one listed is under emissions cheating investigations I listed. FCA is because they chose to not disclose their diesel emissions cheat programming to increase their MPGs.

Mike,
Why are tou defending EPA? Do you work for EPA?
I couldn't care less about any FCA damage. Cheaper RAM for me, better. I am not buying overpriced aluminium, particle poluting ford anyway, but why do you defending EPA and posting wrong statements and words, never been said by EPA?

Titan, yes they do, but not in NA and they have a particle filters and onother solutions to get rid of them and Europe has much stricter limits for particles than US.
Ford and EPA didn't care for many years what particles do to you at all. It's in your body and you can't get rid of them . It sits there, killing you slowly. Ecodiesel is 10 times less particle producer than Ecoboost and my HEMI is 1000 times cleaner, because it doesn't make almost any particles, which gets to your body through the skin.
What EPA did ? Eh?

You are delusional Ram and even write as such. Everyone in the US that has DI and GTDI does not use exhaust filters on gas engines. You are clearly loosing your mind on the damage control. After reading your damage control I hope FCA goes down. They already build junk. They just put toxic lipstick on their pigs in hopes of selling them. They are the disgrace of the auto business.

Titan, tell me exactly which engine has GDI in US. You named Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Volvo, GM, Kia, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes.
Tell me which one please, because you have no clue.

Are you kidding ram? Just about everyone uses GDI. GM 4.3, 5.3, 6.2, 3.6 all GDI. They even have GTDI. Nissan has their 2.5, 5.6L everyone i listed has it. Look it up when you are on break. Not as smart as you think you are that's for sure.

Titan,
exactly. and EPA doesn't care. They should be prosecuted and jailed.

Titan,
exactly. and EPA doesn't care. They should be prosecuted and jailed.

Enjoy on top of the particles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZwDJIpxO2Y

Nice to see you finally admitted you are an idiot Ram.

No, I just tricked you to post it instead of me. Who is an idiot now ?

Not as smart as you think you are that's for sure.

Posted by: Titan TRD | Jan 15, 2017 12:30:53 PM


Titan,
exactly.

Posted by: RAM | Jan 15, 2017 12:34:17 PM

No ram, you were just punked on an open forum. That was some serious fun. Time for you to answer some phone call now. EH. LOL

Well, all those brands you named include Toyota and Ford builds GDI particle polluting junk without exhaust filter like you said for NA market.
Enjoy. EPA is happy about a sheep like you. Will send you a cheque today. Eh ?

The California ARB LEV-3 limits and U.S. EPA Tier 3 standard for particulate mass (PM) emissions start this year, said Cary Henry, principal engineer for aftertreatment technology at Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio. For cars, that means PMs must go from releasing less than 10 mg/mi to 3 mg/mi during a 2017-to-2021 phase-in period, and then down to 1 mg/mi beginning in 2025—a 90% reduction. Engine emissions tend to change with internal wear, so the goal is to maintain these levels over a vehicle’s 150,000-mi (93,200-km) lifetime

Seems like some regulations are being put in place.

Yes , EPA started this year. On the other hand,

"In Europe, a 5 mg/km (3.1 mg/mi) PM emission limit for GDI engines took effect in 2009 with the Euro 5 standard."

http://articles.sae.org/13624/

Where the hell is EPA on this for 8 years and still allowing to pollute double of particles than in Europe? Where is California now ?

Ram, maybe if FCA was not trying to cheat on diesel emissions and having to spend so much time testing they could spend more time on other types of emissions.

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1173XU?client=safari

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160901/COPY01/309019952/fca-accused-by-germany-of-using-emissions-cheat


Say's who? It's still under investigation. Common Ford clown clueless!


Posted by: johnny doe | Jan 14, 2017 11:26:06 PM

Who are you kidding? You clearly did not read the notice to fiat.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-01/documents/fca-caa-nov-2017-01-12.pdf

Since reading appears to be difficult to many people here who knows if you can understand this but it says the EPA has investigated and will continue to. This is also a notice of violation for not disclosing auxiliary emission control devices even though they knew they were required to.

Posted by: Mike Jones | Jan 15, 2017 8:16:37 AM

As I said, it is still under investigation and as you pointed out "EPA has investigated and will continue to.". How do Ford clowns get so dumb?

It looks like Sergio is playing with words. He said they did not cheat like VW with a detection program. But he failed to say that the fiat programming just used timers. A play on words. So it must be the fiat programmers are not nearly as smart as the VW ones. Based on the detection of the timers it seems like a clear cut case of emissions fraud and they should pay dearly for this.

@ Michel
Your post doesn't make sense, but tell me please, why EPA allowed GDI engines without any restrictions until now and why it's asking to meet just double of particles than in the Europe just this year ?
On top of that, Ecodiesel produces 10 times less particles than Ecoboost or any other GDI without a filter.
The harm has been done and EPA doesn't really care about your health.

Ram, explain why fiat used timers to turn off emissions control? A timer is definitely not something used to protect an engine. That is something used as a preprogrammed cheat device. You know around the same time it takes to complete an EPA emission test......

Michel,
where did you get timers ? It all depends on temperature, but there is no hard wired timer to switch emission devices off. The time is always different depends on the engine temperature. Don't tell me your automatic choke works by the timer . It all works depends what engine temperature is .

Michel , I am trying to answer your questions but you don't.

Why EPA allowed GDI engines without any restrictions until now and why it's asking to meet just double of particles than in the Europe just this year ?
On top of that, Ecodiesel produces 10 times less particles than Ecoboost or any other GDI without a filter.

Show us where it depends on temp ram or else you will be proved a fool once again. In fact on timer turns off heating up the SCR. Your running damage control is really making you loopie. Automatic choke control? We know your dumb but that was an all time low for you.

A hard wired timer? Really? I suppose FCA is crappy enough to wire in a kitchen clock but it is all programming. You spending 4 days monitoring this thread has made you goofie. Tell your boss you need a break.

Face it, the EPA discovered timers in the programming. How can they figure out it is a timer and not based on a condition? Easy, it can be replicated and not based on engine heat.

Well, you said a timer, so let me have a link, which confirms a timer. I guess timer is timer and time must be always the same, it's not a timer otherwise.
Send me a link and problem is solve..

Ram you spent 4 days defending the undefendable here. You have read the report and you know it. A reminder of what you already know


This testing revealed that the FCA vehicle models in question produce increased NOx emissions under conditions that would be encountered in normal operation and use. As part of the investigation, EPA has found at least eight undisclosed pieces of software that can alter how a vehicle emits air pollution.

I am not defending a FCA. You just spitting nonsense without a links around.
Send me a link for any of your claims and problem is solved. Otherwise SU.

You said a timer, so let me have a link, which confirms a timer. I guess timer is timer and time must be always the same, it's not a timer otherwise and you SU about a timers finally.

Ram, you have already read it, you know it. Go to the top of this page and go through mark Williams links. You may be to dumb to figure it out so when you get home from work have one of your kids door for you. Case closed. EPA found the timers, its in the report.

EPA couldn't find a particles in any GDI engine for 8 years, so send me a link, where they find timers in FCA engine or SU.

Ram, your full of cr@p. You read the links already. You must have some really bad short term memory. So you can shut it until you read the links Mark Williams provided. It details the use of the fraud timers fiat used.

Not debating EPA is late to reduce PM. Kicker is before euro 5 in 2008 there was no limits on PM for petrol engines, but the epa tier 2 had limit of 6mg/km average up to 12 for largest vechiles. All I can really say is this emissions requirementst are going to make vechiles more expensive and probably lower performance.

No timers bro . Try something else.

And from what I understand is all European diesel vechiles in real world driving pollute 7x the limit of the euro 6 standards. Atleast EPA holds manufacturers accountable.

Canoepaddler you are likely right. We may start seeing a reduction in performance like was seen in the 70's. but technology will come back and we will get the fun back.


Give it up ram, your out of your league. EPA found and exposed the timers. They found and exposed the 8 programming cheating devices. You can talk about gas engines till you are blue in the face but you know what? No one with a gas engine has broken the law like FCA with their diesel. If new regulation comes out for cleaning up gas and someone cheats, then you have your point. But look at the top of this page. Fiat cheated on emissions testing with hidden programming for emissions cheating with some using timers. Sorry bro but you lost your case. EH

And from what I understand is all European diesel vechiles in real world driving pollute 7x the limit of the euro 6 standards. Atleast EPA holds manufacturers accountable.


Posted by: canoepaddler | Jan 15, 2017 4:31:47 PM

Very interesting. Likely why EPA is doing real world testing for some time now.

The President of Ram Bob Hegbloom, that fat lard, I bet he knew about the secret software. Bob, scamming like always, aren't you?

I also believe Fred Diaz left Ram because of these practices. Diaz knew all of the shady stuff going on at Fiat-Ram-Chrysler and left for Nissan because he was getting sick of it all.

Greg, sounds like Fred Diaz might be a very smart man. Or did he get runout?
Either way FCA is screwed on this one. Wonder who's going to buy the brands next? Maybe just let them go under. Only nameplate worth saving is jeep. Crap then all we'll be left with is ford for 4500 and above. Oh well.

You guys bring up something very interesting. I did not know who Fred was. So I looked him up. He worked for Chrysler for 24 years when he left. Why would you leave a company after 24 years if there was not something that scared you. Especially to a competitor that is not strong in trucks.

Another thought.
Nissan is getting in a better position pickup truck wise. This could get very intresting!

Michel,
It's just your opinion and you have no black up for that.

European agencies are the same useless money eaters like NA ones. No difference there. EPA wasn't doing anything for 8 years at all. They are not very smart and certainly doesn't care abut the public health.
Particles are particles, doesn't matter which engine produces them. They go through your skin to the heart and stays there, no way to get them out.
EPA should be dismantled and create from beginning with people who doesn't produce this confusions.
If FCA gets fine, I am all for that, but they must be proved wrong doing first.
This forum is not gonna solve that, but if you want to get a better and longer life, ask EPA to restrict GDI without a particle filter now ! like Europe does.
From what I understand, EPA didn't ask any GDI engines to have a particle filters like in Europe and allows double of particles than in the Europe 8 years ago.
Very interesting indeed.

I am not sure, if all of you are dumber, but if you feel that way, I am not going argue with you.

In fact, I can't argue any longer with all of you. I have reread this trhead and the report and there is now no doubt that FCA did cheat and they are wrong to do this. The particles they put out are just as much a killer as ford particles for our bodies and our planet. I can no longer defend FCA and the way they try to cheat because of their poor engineered engines.

I like you used my nickname. I understand, you wanted to feel smarter and your real one was pulling you back
Don't be ashamed, use it again, if that helps you to gain a confidence.
Maybe you will find an answer, why EPA didn't ask any GDI engines to have a particle filters like in Europe and allows double of particles than in the Europe 8 years ago.
Honestly, you will never answer this question. You have no capacity.

In fact, I can't argue any longer with all of you. I have reread this trhead and the report and there is now no doubt that FCA did cheat and they are wrong to do this. The particles they put out are just as much a killer as ford particles for our bodies and our planet. I can no longer defend FCA and the way they try to cheat because of their poor engineered engines.

I am pleased and honored, you tried to be me. It's like you bought a dress with my name on it.


Where did my post go? I agree with Ram that EPA dropped the ball on timeliness for GDI emissions. Alhough Ram, Europe has been using GDI engines since 99-00 with no emissions standard for PM till 08. EPA had restrictions in 04.
Why is posting under someone's else's name such an issue here?

I have been reading articles on fiats fraud for days now. It is all over the news. Fiat is a disgrace and should pay for their fraud.



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