That Silverado sure looks good up there.

Where is the 2016 1/2 ton and HD breakdown?

For Jeff S and BAFO and the rest who rave about the Midsize pickup market, take a look at the totals.

Full size pickups outsell midsize by more than 3 to 1.

If I ran a big automaker like Ford or RAM you could not get me to invest heavily in midsize trucks today. Look at the dreadful numbers for the Honda Ridgeline!

Honda did a great job of creating something new and innovative but the response in the market is pure poop.

If Honda had invested the same resources into building a half ton pickup and a corresponding full size SUV (like Ford and GM do) their sales would be much better in my opinion.

GMSGREAT: FORD is NUMBER ONE OVER ALL !!

Go get a relaxing lobotomy.

Posted by: redbloodedxy | Feb 9, 2017 7:11:31 AM

So the surgery was a success for you?

The Ford/Chevy/Ram numbers just show the amount of idiots who throw good money away for crap vehicles.

As soon as Ford drops back to 20% fleet from 30.2 in January GM will be back in the lead by a large margin. Gm's fleet for January was 20.9%.

@Mark Williams@PUTC:
Errata:
I think you have Ridgeline and Canyon swapped on your graph, based on the numbers you posted in your February 1st article.

I think you have Ridgeline and Canyon swapped...

@longboat

Either way the numbers are crap. There are 300 million people in this country and only a few million new trucks are sold each year.

There should be a very vibrant number for these very popular vehicles. What gives?

"As soon as Ford drops back to 20% fleet from 30.2 in January GM will be back in the lead by a large margin. Gm's fleet for January was 20.9%."

I don't know where you got your data but the data thay I have found indicates that Ford expects fleet sales to increase for the rest of the year, not go down. This seems to be based on booked orders.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/02/01/ford-us-sales-january-2017.aspx

"Ford's deliveries to rental-fleet and commercial-fleet customers fell 13% in January from a year ago. Ford's U.S. sales chief, Mark LaNeve, said in a conference call for analysts and media that the drop was explained by a year-over-year difference in the timing of deliveries to big fleet customers."
Meaning that fleet sales will pickup later in the year when compared with last year.

Regarless of the percentage that was fleet sales Ford's transaction price was still about $3,800 higher than GM's. This means that Ford was raking in a lot more money than GM. It would be interesting if we had a graph for comparing the gross income of each producer. It seems that customers believe that Fords are worth a lot more than Chevrolets.

Ford number again, no surprise here, what is a surprise is Ram could be number 2 shortly. What will GMS say to that? He is already constantly having to defend the twins because they cant catch Ford, now Ram may overtake number 2....

@walt

No, it means that Ford executives and bean counters believe that their excess manufacturing capacity is best used to fill the dealer lots with fleet trucks and vans.

Ask the Ford dealers what THEY want. Believe me, it ain't more white Ford XLs and Transports. They want higher ATP averages because it's costing the dealers a TON to drive new consumers though their showroom doors.

When Ford dealers have to carry a bunch of fleet trucks on their inventories AND absorb the additional costs of TV and print advertising, they want higher average prices per sale.

Never forget, Ford does not care what YOU want, they lose sleep worrying about what their faithful Ford dealers want.

@PapaJim, I don't know about the Canyon, but the problem with the Ridgeline is they currently can't build them fast enough, particularly the higher trims such as the E model. A current search on cargurus.com shows five of the E trims within a 300-mile radius of me, which includes three metro areas of MSA 500k and another metro area of MSA 1M.

The Ridgeline is built at the Lincoln, AL plant (next to Talladega!) alongside the Pilot, Odyssey and Acura MDX. They have very limited capacity, so are only cranking out about 40-50k Ridgelines per year. Dealers are selling most of the upper trims before they ever hit the lot. Good problem for the dealers and for Honda, but sucks if you're in the market for one.

@longboat

web searches for used product are very accurate. Not for new product however. Dealers always advertise fluff for the new car customers because they never want the prospective customer to think that one of their nearby competitors has a better new car inventory.

Re Honda. Honda's strategy is a huge mistake.

The market for full size vehicles like pickups and SUVs is four times larger than the market for midsize. The midsize market is super competitive too. Every car maker has midsize SUVs, but only GM Ford Ram Nissan and Toyota has full size.

Last year the full size market was super hot. Huge demand.

@papa, I'm failing to see the point where you say Ford does not care what YOU want? It is very evident they care what the customer wants, as noted in sales of the f150 across all trim levels. I have not come across a person who is interested or owns a ford truck and complains about them.

I feel the mid size market is cold due to the fact of gas prices. once they go out of control, the mid size market may do better but right now it appears small trucks are a dud.

@Nitro

How much experience do you have with these topics--really?

Ford cannot sell you a car or truck. They can only sell them to dealers, distributors and exporters. If you want to buy a Ford you cannot go direct. Ain't allowed.

They pay big attention to what their dealers (and stockholders) want. A lot.

You? not so much. Me? ditto.

Dealers----big time.

@ Longboat ,

That's the problem with Chrysler, each of their models they cant build them fast enough.. And especially trucks.. They have no capacity and they are running at full tilt.

This problem for Chrysler goes back to the 50's,60's,70's etc...And the Charger's, Road Runner's, Super Bee's, GTX's, Challenger's, Cuda's they didn't have the capacity to build enough..

GM/Ford always had the capacity but Chrysler and probably Honda are the same, at least Honda in North America...

This is why Chrysler decided to quite the Dart/200 they were good cars but trucks are the real money makers .The next dart was already nearly done and was improved upon as was the refreshed 200 that cured the negative feedback..

Even Toyota said they will make more trucks/suv's.. Toyota is building more trucks and suv's as they are money makers..

I also read that Honda said they are building more trucks and suv's as well..

The all new Honda Civic went down in sales, not good for a brand new model. This shows the strong demand for trucks and suv's..

@PapaJim,
Honda likely will never build a full-size truck. When you get into the current dimensions of full-size, body-on-frame is a less-expensive way to build, and Honda doesn't do body-on-frame. All of their expertise is with unibody, and their factories aren't set up for body-on-frame construction.

For unibody, they won't build much bigger than they are building now. Well, they could, but it would be heavy and expensive compared to the competition, whereas on a smaller platform, unibody holds a distinct advantage in weight savings.

There are a lot of people who want Honda to build a full-size, but I just don't see Honda doing that. They would have to build a whole new factory. They are content to build a pickup truck that will satisfy the needs of 90% of typical suburban homeowners.

People call the Ridgeline an "SUV with a bed" and that is a pretty accurate description. It is geared toward people who would otherwise buy an SUV, but need the utility of a bed for hauling plywood, sheet rock, lawn tractor, snowblower, ATV, dirt bike, compost, mulch, washer/dryer, etc,

@Mark,
Honda is in the process of moving the Acura MDX production from the Alabama plant to their Ohio plant. That should give more production capacity for their truck platform in the Alabama plant.

That's too bad if their Civic sales are falling. It's probably the best Civic they ever built. That would be a true testament to people abandoning cars.

@longboat

you are mistaken. Honda built the S2000 roadster with a north/south motor and a body/frame architecture.

Their excellent design work on the S2000 would easily translate to the pickup design if they chose to undertake it.

@Nitro--papa jim only focuses on facts that agree with his opinion. Papa looks at Ridgeline sales and uses that as his basis for stating midsize trucks are dead. I have given papa links to the increased production at the Toyota truck plants and the Colorado/Canyon plants but he prefers to spin his own fiction. Plant capacity is not increased if sales volume is not there. Yes manufacturers customers are the dealers but without the customers the dealers will not order. If customers choose not to buy midsize trucks then the dealers will not order them, but if customers buy them and sales increase then the dealers will order more to keep more in inventory.

Papa also states that the Colorado is 6 years behind because he is only looking at the previous generation Global Colorado. Since the US produced version of the Colorado was introduced which was redesigned to meet US safety and emission standards a new Global Colorado has been introduced using the same front and many of the other features of the US Colorado. If one wants to compare which trucks are out dated you need to not look any further than the Silverado/Sierra which have basically remained the same except grills, headlights, and a new man step. Even the engines are the same but they have updated the automatic transmissions. Ford is really the only manufacture that has introduced a completely new full size pickup in the last few years. Most truck buyers are conservative and for the most part don't want drastic changes and the cost of redesigning any vehicle is expensive and requires a much longer recovery of costs. Ford might be an exception to that rule in that they sell many more trucks but Ford still took a gamble because they shutdown plants to completely refit them to manufacture the newer aluminum trucks. Ford was willing to take the risk based on the volume of F-150 sales.

Just as I said here several times over the past few years, GM comes out with a new model and does well until owners get a few miles on the trucks and discover they are spending way too much time in repair facilities. Then buyers move to the better brands. Once again, that is proving true. Ford outsold Chevy + GMC + Colorado + Canyon! And Ram has made steady progress towards overtaking Chevy and is now just an eye lash away from accomplishing that. Not surprising. From my experience with the three majors, Ram has the far superior truck.

@PapaJim,
Yes, that is true about the S2000. I was thinking of vehicles that are/were built in the U.S. As you know, the S2000 was built in Japan and is probably Honda's most highly-sought-after vehicle. Think of a Mazda Miata roadster, then multiply the fun factor x 100! I don't know why they quit building them.

Probably a bigger reason Honda doesn't build a larger vehicle is fuel economy. The Ridgeline, although best MPG of the mid-size trucks with V6 gassers, gets the worst MPG in Honda's model lineup. When Honda maintains high CAFE numbers, they can sell credits to companies like Ford/GM who may have trouble making CAFE. It is probably a good business plan for Honda. They avoid stepping on toes in the full-size market, and cash in on the full-size market by selling CAFE credits.

@Jeff S: The full size GM 1/2 ton twins were completely redesigned, frame, body and all 3 engines became direct injected with DOD and continuously adjustable cam timing, 2014 saw the 8 speed introduced on 6.2 and now 5.3 engine. F-150 got redesigned and introduced late 2014 with new frame, body but all engines and transmissions were carry overs from previous generation. Just say'in.

@Jeff S

Get your facts straight, then we can start discussing your prosaic opinions.

The full size trucks outsells the midsize by a huge margin. Are people forced to buy the heavies?

No, people want them. Please name a company with a successful mid size strategy--then we can discuss it. No different that GM's mid size, Ford has plans to enter the market in a couple of years with a truck that is basically a refreshed version of their Global Ranger.

If Ford actually committed themselves to a real midsize strategy that reflects proudly on what they do with the F150 it would be a huge success. They won't.

Why devote the resources to a market that is a fraction of the full size market?

Honda's: I know two people with S2000. They seem peppy and good lines. I think Jeff S (hope I got it right) said no manufacturer has a monopoly on quality, and I agree based upon some things I didn't think should need repairs at so low miles on a '92 Accord. Although Honda's do seem solid drivetrain wise. Yah I inherited a '91 Prelude Si and didn't think much of it until I stepped on the gas and it simply accelerated very well. Then I looked at the engine and thought wow, it kind of reminds me of my E30 M3 engine in that the spark plugs are at the top center (HEMI). Then I read up on the car (Wiki) and was amazed at how they used all the tech from it to put into the NSX. I'm yet to see a present generation of the NSX except in commercials. Maybe I need to go to more Sunday morning cars and coffee rally's to see one. We have a Blackhawk car museum one in San Ramon, Ca (more so for muscle cars), and a Santana Row Santa Clara, Ca (more for exotics). I'm also starting to sense that the Prelude Si is gaining traction for a following, although not at the level of an E30 M3. Honda does seem to do some things well, but the Ridgeline is not for me because I can't get past the size of the box even though it would fit in my garage. Yah, I agree it is perfect for those who want to move up from an SUV. I ran by a previous generation Ridgeline and looked in the box and thought wow that's sure is square and short. And I ran by a 2500 and thought yah no wonder that guy doesn't park in the garage (its' long). I'll just wait for the new RAM, but if I found a longbed crew Colorado that I could pick up inexpensively, even needing some drivetrain work, I might whip it up.

I thought the Ridgeline bed was pretty big for a mid-size four-door truck. Definitely the widest, and no problem hauling full-size plywood or sheet rock. It is shallow (apparently designed for easy reach-in-over-the-sides), so I would have to bolt some plywood to the sides for tall loads of mulch or a half cord of wood.

Best thing is that trunk, though. Huge and easy to get to, it's almost like having a much bigger bed.

@papa, "Why devote the resources to a market that is a fraction of the full size market?" sounds similar to what GM did then went bankrupt......not devote all resources but you need enough as the halfton market is not a solid bet long term as 2008 showed us

@GMSGREAT--Maybe so but to many the changes don't seem as noticeable. Maybe Chevy should advertise these changes more than bashing Ford. I am not saying that to be disrespectful, I own a Chevy but just that advertising is an opportunity to state these changes.

@papa jim--Give me a specific example of when I stated that a buyer should be forced to buy a specific type of vehicle. We all have opinions but I have never slammed or put down anyone's vehicle but you have. Why should you care if I own and drive an Isuzu truck? If you would keep an open unbiased mind you would read the links that I provided and understand that GM and Toyota are running their plants on 3 shifts at full capacity just to keep up demand with the Colorado/Canyon and Tacoma. If demand drops then those plants will either cut production or close. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. I serious doubt anytime soon that midsize truck sales will overtake full size truck sales but I guess you have a right to imagine that I said that which I never did. I doubt Ford would revive the Ranger if they did not see an opportunity to increase their sales and make money. Why don't you ask Mark Fields yourself? Why don't you ask Mary Barra why GM is making midsize trucks? Why don't you ask FCA why Jeep is considering a new truck based on the Renegade? I am willing to bet their answer will be that they see an opportunity to increase their sales and make a profit.

@Jeff S

Read the papers, buddy! The corporate brass at GM and Ford want one of two things: Market Share, and Profitability

Ford seems hell bent on gaining share in pickups (they should GM outsold Ford by 100k units last 2 years).

GM seems to have focused on lifting the average transaction price of cars/trucks sold. They talk about it a lot. Haven't you noticed? GM's strategy makes sense if their focus is on making their dealers happy. It would also make sense if their plants are running near capacity.

Clearly that's not the case with Ford because they had to idle their truck plant in Kansas City recently in an attempt to clear dealer inventory.

This stuff isn't about my opinion or yours. Read the Wall Street Journal, it's in the papers every day.

@papa jim-Agree and read what I have previously stated. Do you think that Ford, GM, and Toyota are producing midsize trucks because they are forced to? They are making midsize trucks because they see a profit. Not every vehicle that is profitable sells at 500k or a million units a year. True a plant is idled to clear inventory but don't all the manufacturers do that? Do F-150 sales over a period of a year show any decline? Don't sales of most vehicles go down in January? If you were a stockholder of Ford, GM, Toyota, or FCA wouldn't you expect them to be flexible enough to adjust their production to sales and days of unsold inventory? This again is not rocket science, it is business. Yes there is a race to get market share but that will not last if a corporation is losing money. Ford is still making a huge profit on the sale of their trucks. If it weren't for the sales of trucks FCA would be out of business, GM would be asking for another Government loan, and even Ford would be in deep trouble. I read all those publications but I also read car and truck news from other sites and from industrial news. You have not even read the links I provided so you are getting your news only from the Wall Street Journal and other Rupert Murdoch publications. My sources are from those who have worked in the auto industry for years and worked at the headquarter and dealer level for Ford, GM, FCA, Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, and other companies. I would put more credence on their opinions than yours.

So Jeff, why devote the resources to a market that is a fraction of the full size market?

Nice job Ford, wiping the floor with the competition - like I said before on this site many times;

Ford's lead can only increase this year and even 2018 as no one has anything new to offer;
- Nissan already blew their best efforts
- Toy makers are happy with the Tundra sales as is Tacoma are OK
- RAM working on an update that has being delayed several more years due to lack of $$$$
- Shaky cheby/GMC are still trying to work out how much they can copy ZFord without admitting it...HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

HAHAHAHA GM is closing in on the end of this gen of truck. 2019 model will be out in 2018 mostly if they follow the same route they did with the current 2014 model being out for sale in 2013. GM can add some nice incentives on the full size to pass Ford in sales, while the midsize are continuing to grow in double digit % with basically no incentives keeping profit loss at a low. Like I said Ford only has a 238 unit lead with 11 months still to go. Ford only likely won't offer anything off on the new Super Duty's, F150 they probably want to keep tight as well to since the new engine and trans.

most likely*

Actually the pic of the Silverado is perfect, it clearly shows how ugly it is next to the F150; in fact it looks almost cartoonish with square bumper clads, oversized square wheel wells with tiny wheels/tires - reminds me of a square barge with wheels.

@papa jim--Since you propose yourself as the expert of all things why don't you tell GM what to do? I am sure that those in charge have more experience than you they might value your opinions. When some one as you is so rigid in your opinions and think others don't know anything then I am sure that you would be a valuable asset. I never have proposed that I know everything and I am willing to keep an open mind about all things. Your view would fit in with Henry Ford's original view on cars "you can have any color you want so long as its black." Along cam Alfred P Sloan with the concept of affordable cars that came in other colors besides black and created the annual model change which eventually caused Ford to change this concept and thus the Model A came about with other colors besides black. Your mind set also fits in with the period of the 50's and much of the 60's "why would you buy a compact car when for a little more you can get a full size Chevy Impala or a Ford Galaxy 500? You can't sell as many Falcons or Chevy IIs as you can sell full size so why bother, even despite that American Motors made and sold a lot of Rambler Americans. Everyone should buy a new full size car whether they want or need it. Everyone should buy a full size truck and if you don't then you are an idiot and a worthless human being. Your are entitled to be a crumudgeon and every website should have one.in the comment section. You are entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to mine. You ask me for facts and I provided them with links but when you are asked to provide facts you don't.

As for advertising GM seems to be content with their market focus group and the 5 special edition Silverados and dropping concrete blocks in the beds of a Silverado and F-150 along with which would you rather have protection from a gorilla a aluminum cage or a steel cage. I never realized before that I needed a steel body truck to protect myself from all the gorillas out on the road. Good thing I have one, those gorillas are very dangerous.

So the twins sold about 9,000 units, at full production they can put out about 12,000 units. I might get to see more then 2 on my local lot now, as they sell them as fast as they get them in...
don't see them slowing down production for a while

@Dave--Agree and that is why Ford is coming back with a new Ranger. 100k units of sales is not bad even if it is 25% of the sales of Silverado. Better to sell a midsize crew cab truck than a sedan if the customers are buying the midsize truck--the midsize truck is more profitable than the 4 door midsize sedan.

@Frank and Lionel: The picture shows the Silverado ahead of the Ford. That's how it is in the real world. Besides, the Silverado pictured is a Duramax, it has enough power to rip that aluminum bodied F-150 in half. Then that tombstone grill can be more appropriately placed in front of another dead Ford.

@Jeff S

Ok, second try. So Jeff, why would companies this size of Ford or GM devote the capital resources to a market that is a fraction of the full size market?

Big Al that's still lurking around this site hiding behind multi-personalities because his doomsday predictions about Ford's aluminum move & turbo V6's were so wrong, he's probably crapping crow already

He was right, Ford lost first place in truck sales when the first full year for AL and V6s come out 2015. They got a tiny tiny 238 unit leg up in the 3rd year for first month, but its not dec 31 2017 yet.

2016 PU truck totals

http://cars.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b3c669e201b8d254b9fb970c-pi

2015

"We also should note that when totaling all pickup truck sales by corporate brand, GM is the clear winner by a wide margin"

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2017/01/best-selling-pickup-trucks-december-2016.html

Who's really crapping crow?

@Longboat
Good points on the Ridgeline. I'll take one when they provide a long bed in gen 3. Looks like I'll be in for a wait!? 210" is current length. Add 14.5" longer bed, and it'll be up to 224.5". That'll fit in a garage and shut up all of us who see it as a SUV with an exposed rear.

Geez. Can't we all just get along. I know you'll really care about each other deep down. Or you wouldn't be talking to each other at all. It used to annoy me but after all the time I've spent on this site, I'm seeing it more as comic relief.

I chatted with a Tesla assembly line contractor, who originated in Detroit with lots of Ford plant experience, in the local Elon Musk restaurant last night, in the bar. He's bearish on Tesla hitting time line on model 3 mass production date. To many youngins steering the ship.

@Angelo,
An industry insider mentioned that the new Ridgeline is built in such a way that Honda can put different cab/bed configurations on the platform. I am hoping they'll bring out an extended or super cab with a 6.5' bed and same overall length.

@papa jim--Do you believe that full size pickup sales will increase indefinitely. Do you remember what happened in 2008? If a manufacturer puts all their resources in just one product because that product is the majority of their sales at that time do you think that is a good strategy? You assume that nothing will change. A very rigid viewpoint that can get a corporation in deep trouble. FCA has been following this strategy to some degree in focusing more resources on Ram and Jeep but long term this will cost FCA. Of course FCA's resources are much more limited that Ford and GM but eventually the economy will go down and the fuel prices will go up.

If you think that 9,000 units of Colorados selling in a month is small, over a period of 1 year that is over 100k units which is 25% of Silverado's just under a 400k units. If you based sales on 400k and above then GM would end up not selling anything but Silverado/Sierra and even that Suburban/Tahoe you want would be discontinued. Do you suggest that GM and Ford follow a similar path as FCA?

Maybe the best strategy would be for manufacturers to enter into more joint agreements where 1 manufacturer produces the smaller vehicle and another 1 produces the larger one and both share these vehicles. This is what Mazda is considering with Mitsubishi on the next generation of Global trucks since Mazda is losing their partnership with Ford. A manufacturer cannot stake their entire future on a 1 product strategy.

Product plans are done on projections of what products will be in demand in 3 to 5 years which include economic projections and what types of consumers will be buying your products. If you just took the sales data for January 2017 and used that to project future product planning and demand that would not be enough. GM has played it very conservative with the Colorado/Canyon starting out sharing a plant and then taking the entire plant for production based on the increased demand for the Colorado/Canyon. There were limited number of trim levels and a limited number of colors and options. Colorado/Canyon has added a few special off road models but they are still proceeding with cautious optimism. GM has not gone whole hog and bet the farm on the Colorado/Canyon. If Ford does the same thing with the Ranger then they should be successful as well. Ford will share a plant with the new Bronco and with that will give Ford the flexibility to shift production to which ever product is selling the most. Toyota is doing the same thing in their San Antonio plant in that the Tundra and Tacoma are sharing the same plant and which ever product line is in the most demand Toyota can switch more production to. Presently the Tacoma is outselling the Tundra so more production is shifted to Tacoma and with the increasing demand for Tacoma Toyota is expanding their Tacoma plant in Mexico. Can you explain why this is not a good strategy and why not putting at least a limited amount of resources is a good strategy? This is not a all or nothing strategy for midsize trucks but a planned investment that can be increased or decreased depending on the sales of the product. Not that hard to figure out.

@Longboat @Jeff S
Different cab/bed configs for Ridgeline. I hope so. That would be a good measured approach as Jeff has emphasized. Clearly, Ridgeline Gen 2 is more truck like. Gen 3 will probably be even more so if trajectory of people moving up from cars/SUV's to midsizers (and conversely from fullsize down to midsize) continues. As far as midsizers being expensive: it's like getting 2 vehicles in one. Ie the crew section which is car like, and the bed which is truck like. But I have to have the right size crew, bed, and overall length before my $ is handed to a manufacturer. Otherwise, I'll just keep it invested until manufacturer can make the configuration available. Good weekend...

Looks like GM has pulled off another B slap to Ford's face, ZR2 pricing is in!

"The 2017 Chevrolet Colorado ZR2 high-performance, off-road midsize pickup truck will have a starting MSRP of $40,995 in the U.S., and a $940 destination charge, when it launches this spring.

For the sake of comparison, the director competitor to the Colorado ZR2 — the Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro — starts at $41,920 with a six-speed manual transmission and $43,920 with a six-speed automatic; both figures include a $960 destination fee. As such, the Colorado ZR2 starts at over $2,500 less than the Tacoma.

Meanwhile, the Ford F-150 Raptor — which is a size class bigger and more powerful than the Colorado — has a stating MSRP of $48,860 and can be specced out to be as much as $26,000 more than the Colorado ZR2."

Oh and no front locker for the Ford or Yota LOL!!!!

Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2017/02/2017-chevrolet-colorado-zr2-starting-price-announced/#ixzz4YJ70UY3G

The above picture of the Chevy HD is a picture of the least sold HD in the segment. They should have added the Sierra as well.

The above picture of the Chevy HD is a picture of the least sold HD in the segment. They should have added the Sierra as well.

Posted by: Frank | Feb 10, 2017 1:01:28 PM

Unfortunately, you need money to play in the big league.