annnd for a few grand more and 2 MPG less I can put you into a real "big boy" truck unless you don't have anything to tow or haul.

This is the prospect facing Ford when they bring the T-6 pickup (the Ranger everybody else has had for the last 10 years) to market.

If the mid size Ford has any chance at all it will have to offer buyers an entry level pickup in the Nissan Frontier price range or they'll be walking away from a third of their potential customers.

In the meantime anybody who's looking for an affordable and reliable truck that will do 85% of what most of us need a pickup for---this is your oyster.

Who could complain?

@papa, just bringing the Ford name to the market will propel them. I am not a fan of them having a Ranger again after seeing the dismal numbers from the twins, and like other stated, the current twins in this category having to be taking share from the full size trucks, maybe another reason why they can't top Ford in the full size category.

@Nitro

you talk like you're on acid. Get help.

The exterior on these things aren't bad looking for being 12 years old! That interior is horrible. Filled with grey plastic! Yuck!

Filled with grey plastic! Posted by: TNTGMC | Oct 5, 2017

@TNTGMC

Did you say grey plastic? Have you ever ridden in a late model F150? Just checking

This has to be a cash cow for Nissan, just like the Jeep line is to FCA, Every 10-15 years they upgrade them just a little.

@ papajim

LOL!! I agree, but the F150 isn't as bad. The f150 have a ton of plastic but its at least up to date in modern times, if that makes sense? This thing looks very outdated. Reminds me of my buddies altima in college to years ago

My 2008 4x4 SE Frontier runs just like new. The load and towing capability of these small trucks is very understated. This truck handles a heavier load than my old 95 Dodge 1500.
Some may complain about the plain plastic interior but it has stood up over time. This is a basic work truck that lasts.

Every 10-15 years they upgrade them just a little. Posted by: Dave | Oct 5, 2017

Can you say Ford Taurus? Ranger? Expedition? Edge?

I realize some of my comments tend to be sub-par from a 3rd graders perspective but, Gm trucks have always been outdated. Myself and others agree with them staying far behind Ford and Ram. Most of us do not like electronics, or fancy things in our trucks. As I have stated before I will take a manually roll up window any day over the push button style. Please Gm do not update you trucks.

@tnt, this reminds me of the twins in the outdated department.

@Nitro

I love my interior in my Sierra. I think its laid out nicely. Everything is easy to get to and operate. Unlike Fords plastic, hard services. There Sync tech is frustrating, even my step dad says its complicated at times and frustrates him.

The 2018 Frontier is a very good value. A Base Colorado starts at a little over 20k. The price of the base 2018 is not much more than the base 2017 with the addition of standard air conditioning, backup camera, cruise control, and blue tooth connectivity. The 2018 Base Frontier is the Ace of Base--a lot of truck for the money despite that it is a midsize truck. I would put this on my list of favorite midsize trucks after the Colorado/Canyon.

Did you say grey plastic? Have you ever ridden in a late model F150? Just checking

Posted by: papajim | Oct 5, 2017 9:09:54 AM

I was in an LTZ Duramax, the cheap wood looked like platstic. I think I even started to peel it off.

If Ford can keep the Ranger cost down it will sell, heck, I'd take one with a Manual, Reg Cab, Shortbed and crank windows.

If Ford can keep the Ranger cost down it will sell, heck, I'd take one with a Manual, Reg Cab, Shortbed and crank windows.

@tnt, thats becasue older people dont like electronics like papa said he doesnt either, so I'm not surprised. A friend of mine is currently shopping HD's, he doesnt care what brand so is testing all of them. He mentioned to me he likes the ride best in the twins, but said he noticed the Ford interior is far above the Gm's, he has looked at the LTZ and denali, and likes the Ford king ranch the best. he is still looking, but thats coming from someone who is not brand specific. He also doent care about the reports or online tresting of vehicles, which I pointed him to research and he mentioned most sites are filled with people like papa and gms who like to bash and have no experience with other vehicles. I referenced this site as one of the worst....which is why there are only 20 people who visit it hahahaha

@Frank--I would take one too like that but most likely it will be like the Colorado/Canyon which offers extend cab, power windows, and power driver's seat with a manual transmission only offered in the base mode. There are no regular cab midsize trucks offered and most have power windows. I think if the new Ranger stays close to the price of this Frontier and the Colorado then it will do well.

@Frank--This Nissan Frontier gets as close to a base small truck as you can get at an affordable price. Much better value than a Tacoma, Ridgeline, and even the Colorado/Canyon.

@ Nitro

I totally agree with you there. Im 36 and I just feel that the GM twins are easier to operate. Now the technology that Ford offers in there 360 cameras, rear heated seats, trailering and towing is a lot better than the twins. I'm just not a fan of there TTV6's or their aluminum bodies. I think they did themselves a major disservice by not upgrading the 6.2L. Its a monster of an engine that has tons of potential.
I also PRAY that GM doesn't follow Ford, and keeps its engine lineup, bc the 4.3 is a work horse, the 5.3 is a solid motor, and the 6.2 in its own right is a beast as well.

@tnt, I agree on the 6.2, its in the camaro the wife has and is a mutha of an engine.

The price seldom goes down, but the design keeps getting older...

Yeah. It's such a great buy, that's why sales are down 30% and it's one of the worst selling trucks in the country. Don't believe the hype.

"annnd for a few grand more and 2 MPG less I can put you into a real "big boy" truck unless you don't have anything to tow or haul."
---- Posted by: Clint | Oct 5, 2017 7:10:45 AM

I have very little I need to tow or haul and certainly don't need the size of a "big boy truck" that's more pomp than circumstance in most cases. Yes, I agree that the Nissan is dated but it's now just about the smallest mid-size on the market and is notably cheaper in 4x4 form than any "equivalent" full-sized model.

@roadwhale

so, does that mean you like it?

I'd take one with a Manual, Reg Cab, Shortbed and crank windows. Posted by: Frank | Oct 5, 2017

Ford's 2.5 North/South motor needs an update.

The 2.5s they were putting in the last gen Rangers had cast-iron crank and rods. If you bought the Mazda sedans and Miata's back in those days you got forged steel crank and rods. Lame.

The little 2.5 would satisfy anybody who did not have big demands and it would live long without leaking or smoking.

Speaking of leaking and smoking, did you give up the Luckies yet?

@papa jim--Road Whale wants a truck about the size of the Hyundai Santa Cruz. I think for the money the Frontier is a lot of truck. It is as close as you can get to the older Ford Ranger and S-10 which is not a bad thing. If I were in the market now for a new truck this Frontier would be close to the top of my list especially since it has a manual transmission.

And so the cheapest 4x4 pickup truck you can buy today is now $29k... Jeez, what happened?

I hope the 2019 Frontier doesn't lose it's masculine appearance Like the Chevy Colorado did going from the first generation to the second generation out now.

I hope the 2019 does not look anything like the Frontier redesign that is currently for sale in most markets outside of North America. I was in the Netherlands recently and saw one parked. I looked at it from all angles and I have to say it's the ugliest truck I've seen.....I know looks can be subjective, but with this new Frontier, you can't use that as an excuse.

As it stands on those specifications the current US Frontier would not sell at all in Australia. Your new Frontier sounds like a comprehensive update, rather than a more expensive move to the NP300 architecture.

@Chad Sexington
Saw a current RAM, it was pretty ugly. So beauty is in the eyes of the beholder

Not a good buy. Colorado starts at just $35. more in 2wd and $600 less in 4wd. and has more discounts.

the Frontier is a lot of truck. It is as close as you can get to the older Ford Ranger and S-10 which is not a bad thing. Posted by: Jeff S | Oct 5, 2017

@Jeff S

I agree with your approach here, but the Frontier is light-years ahead (even in base trim) of the compact trucks that GM and Ford were making 20 years ago. The base S10 was nothing special and the base Ranger was a dog.

Back then unless you could find a stick shift, the base S10 had a 4 speed auto and the base Ranger had a flakey 5 sp auto.

The Ranger did not have 4 wheel discs until 2009 and the S10 never did. Both were cramped for passengers compared to the Nissan. It's ahead of the other two in almost every way.

"so, does that mean you like it?"
---- Posted by: papajim | Oct 5, 2017 3:11:14 PM

That means it's the one I dislike the least. I would go for the 4x4 King Cab IF I had to select from any of the existing full- or mid-sized pickup trucks on the market. But no, I don't really like it. It's style, like the others, is trying too hard to look even bigger than it is.

BMB, Toyota 4x4 4cyl 5spd manual with no options has an msrp of $24,385.

Just as a note to all of yas... I'm going to a local car show this weekend specifically to look at trucks. Personally, a truck version of the Jeep Renegade would be more appealing than the rest on appearances and I like the Renegade's AWD system (actually labeled as 4x4 due to the way the system works.)

Yes, I'll be looking at full and mid-sized and I will be comparing cab size for driver comfort for both myself and my wife, who is taller with long, LONG legs compared to mine. The biggest complaints I've heard so far has had to do with how they look inside and how little leg room they offer her with the seat full back and the wheel at its highest. I'll be looking for any improvements over last year.

@papa jim--For their time the S-10 and Ranger were good, but there have been a lot of changes in the past 10 years rendering both obsolete. The Frontier's current model was release about the time the prior Colorado/Canyon were introduced and close to the time a newer Tacoma was introduced. At that time the Ranger was the older midsize truck. I still have a 99 S-10 and mostly drive it but that is because I really like it and it has been very dependable. I doubt if I were buying new that I would want another one, the Frontier and Colorado/Canyon are much better. I do wish that Colorado/Canyon had other interior colors beside black which is one of my complaints about them. Would be nice to have a choice of gray or tan as well. Also I prefer a bench seat with an arm rest which is getting harder to get on any new vehicle. Even with that I would still put the Colorado/Canyon on my list.

Even with that I would still put the Colorado/Canyon on my list.
Posted by: Jeff S | Oct 6, 2017

@Jeff S

I can't find Colorado's with the kinds of base trim level that I'd probably buy. If I was shopping for a mid size I can't imagine finding a truck that I'd like better than the current King cab Frontier 5 speed, 4 cylinder. Basic. Plain. Crank windows. Plastic bedliner. AM/FM. A/C

The Chevy dealer just doesn't have any incentive to sell to me. All of the Colorado's I see have four-bangers and cost more than a SV Frontier with their excellent V6.

Frontiers really do sell for 19-22K. Colorado's in that price range are unicorns.

@papa jim--I have found some deals on Colorado/Canyons on cars.com but most of those deals are outside my area. If I go from 60 to 100 miles there are some dealers that have more Base Colorado/Canyons. One dealer has an extended cab white 2017 Canyon with a 4 cylinder 6 speed manual with cloth seats and a few extras for $19,800 which is not a bad price. Every once in a while a cars.com search will find a Base Colorado for below 19k. I have found a number of Colorados with automatics around 21k to 22k. I did find a 2017 Frontier with a 5 speed manual 4 cylinder, cruise control, power windows, and a few other extras from a dealer near Lexington, KY for 21k. For a decent truck equipped the way I want it at a decent price I would be willing to travel. Most of the dealers around me including Nissan and Toyota stock crew cabs, 4 wheel drive, and higher trimmed models. A lot of families around me buy either full size half tons or midsizes well optioned crew cabs with 4 wheel drive as a second vehicle. The crew cab pickup has replaced the sedan in many families.

Beware of the "bait"

If the dealer knows you have driven an hour or more to see his inventory, you're dead. Unless the salesperson (and his boss) become convinced that "you can take it or leave it" they will not show you their best pricing. You can trust me on this.

It's especially true if he only has one or two of that model available.

I mean no disrespect, and this is all common sense stuff, but I NEVER believe any of the pricing they show me until we are HOURS into the negotiation and I'm getting ready to leave. That's when the nuttin' starts. Until then, they're just playing a game.

@papa jim--Might be true but I would confirm that the vehicle is in stock and that it is available at the advertised price with no additional fees. Cosco also has a buying service for members, which I might try first.

"The Ranger did not have 4 wheel discs until 2009 and the S10 never did. Both were cramped for passengers compared to the Nissan. It's ahead of the other two in almost every way. "

papajim

The S10 4X4 models had 4 wheel disc brakes from 1999 to 2004 including the crew cab models. The Ranger had them standard on all models since 2011. Side note: the Dodge Dakota had them in 2003 and 2004 in extended and crew cabs but went back to rear drums in the 2005 body style (SMH).

The S10 4X4 models had 4 wheel disc brakes from 1999 to 2004 including the crew cab models. The Ranger had them standard on all models since 2011. Posted by: Liam | Oct 7, 2017

@Liam

I bought a new Ranger in 2009. It had 4 wheel discs. The S10 Crew Cab models you refer to were a very small part of overall S10 production, but you win on that fact--they DID have rear discs. I think the point I was trying to make is that the Frontier, that Nissan came out with to compete against the S10 and the Ranger, was superior in about every possible way to the Ford and Chevy. The Dakota was eclipsed by Toyota and Nissan almost as soon as it arrived.

I would confirm that the vehicle is in stock and that it is available at the advertised price with no additional fees. Cosco also has a buying service for members, which I might try first. Posted by: Jeff S | Oct 6, 2017

@Jeff S

The whole point of using my approach is to make them sell you the truck or car for the lowest possible margin.

Why pay advertised price if you can get it cheaper than that?

Also: So called buying services like Costco and Consumer Reports are just using published figures. Anybody can do that.

Every car lot has bad days now and then. You always should aim to buy a car when they're having a bad day.

If it's 5pm and the sales team hasn't sold a new car all day, the GM is yelling at the sales manager to light a fire under somebody. He will sell you a car at 100 dollar's mark-up just to make the GM shut up.

@papa jim--That might be true and I have done that in the past but you need to offer a price that is within reason which means you need to know about what the dealer paid for the vehicle and what incentives the dealer is given by the manufacturer to move that vehicle (that requires some research on your part before you even go shopping for a new vehicle). You can always go look at the vehicle and make an offer that is lower. I did that on my Isuzu and got some more off.

There are certain vehicles that dealers will offer little or no discount. Toyota and Honda are not ones that give discounts on a regular basis but even then there could be a particular vehicle that has been in the the dealer inventory too long (if that is a vehicle that you want then you can get a better deal). I have in the past walked away from a dealer only to have them call me back either accepting my last offer or splitting the difference.

which means you need to know about what the dealer paid for the vehicle.

@Jeff S

They will tell you what they paid if you ask--it's really that simple.

Just tell them you want the base model Frontier King Cab and you will not pay more than 200.00 over dealer cost.

If they want to sell the truck, they'll show you their cost, add 200 bucks and put the ball back in your court.

You must pay cash (no trade, no financing) for this to work. If they don't like your terms they'll tell you straight out. If the truck has only been on their lot for a couple of weeks, they will refuse.

If it's been on their inventory for 85 or 90 days they'll do it!

They will not respond to my approach over the phone under any circumstances--you have to be sitting across from them with a pen in hand, a smile and a checkbook.

@papa jim--I did not say that you negotiate over the phone, I said that once I have negotiated in person and the salesman or manager has told me no way I tell them that they can call me if they change their minds--if they don't call me then I don't have to deal with them. Yes, I do ask them for their cost but I also research as much information ahead of time so that I have some knowledge as to what they pay and where I can start. I have actually ask to talk to the owner of the dealership if I know they are around which works with family owned dealerships but not with mega dealerships On the Isuzu I got the owner of the dealership to knock off an additional 1k and include an accessory for half with no labor charge and that is after I negotiated a lower price. The dealer did tell me that he had extra incentives from the manufacturer and even gave me how much extra he had. He was more honest than many dealers that I have dealt with and he did tell me that he had to make some profit but he was willing to sell the truck which had been in his inventory for months. This was during the Summer of 2008 during the financial melt down and his sales staff had few sales except used. It took me a couple of trips and to ask for another salesman that was willing to work with me. I observed that the sales staff was not very busy on a Saturday afternoon and were looking out the window at the traffic on the street discussing what they want to drink. I did use that fact to my advantage and used that information when I talked to the owner. Many times it is not just what you ask the dealer about but it is observing what is going on at the dealer. On the CRV there was not as much wiggle room. Honda dealerships for the most part are adverse to negotiating on price especially on a model that they cannot keep on the lot. I was able to get Honda to add a protection package with rust proofing, front and rear mud flaps, and heavy duty floor mats and cargo mat at no additional cost and to offer an additional 1k on the trade-in. I offered cash but since I could not get anything additionally I took Honda's 60 month 0.09% interest--better to use Honda's money than sell an investment and pay in cash with no additional discount. It is the first time I had bought a vehicle on credit but I could have easily written a check. I knew my wife wanted that vehicle and that all the inventory had just arrived. The CRV that we bought had a production date of 2 weeks before we bought it and the CRV had been delivered the day before with a truck load of CRVs. That was not my best negotiation but I at least got the dealer to throw some additional things in even though I know that the value of the additional options was marked up high but at least I got them to give me those things. I have 10 months of payments left on the CRV and I will not pay it off early since I would not save that much. Also the loan has raised my credit score which was high before but better now. I paid my mortgage off 7 years ago so the Honda is my only debt.

On the Isuzu I got the owner of the dealership to knock off an additional 1k and include an accessory for half with no labor charge

@Jeff S

Only one thousand? He should have paid you to take it.

The local Ford dealer shared space with Isuzu and had those in stock and could not give 'em away. Seriously.

The economy was in the toilet back then and gas prices were damn near $4.00 per gallon. Trucks weren't selling and the various Canyon/Colorado/I-Series models were just dying on the car lots.

From the date of its introduction until the decision was made to drop it in early 2006, Isuzu dealers had only sold about 1,400 of the I-Series trucks.

Your decision to buy one turned out to be a good practical decision because it sounds like it's been a good truck for you--just as long as you didn't pay too much.