Because FCA is behind schedule entering this mid size market they'll need to do something cool to make a splash.

Diesel is one possibility. Hybrid is another. Hard to image a Hemi option, but it would sure make some waves.

What about a sporty regular cab pickup with a manual trans option? That would go against the grain for sure!

@PapaJim -- they could use three regular cab trucks with manual trans:

1) a longbed budget version for the worker/contractor/votech student
1) a sporty shortbed dropped version with etorque V6 and aero package,
2) a lifted shortbed version with EcoDiesel and e-lockers.

The latter version, with it's short wheelbase, would compete well against TRD and ZR2, but will steal thunder from Jeep if they can't produce something similar.

That should be
1)
2)
3)

Market saturation

@TooMuch: At the moment, the mid-sized market doesn't show all that much indication for being saturated; mid-sized sales are climbing still... albeit slowly.

On the other hand, full-sized sales appears to have flattened and possibly declined by some small amount. If true, this could be an indicator that the big truck market is saturated.

And don't forget, both Hyundai and Ford are teasing even smaller models, though the Hyundai tease is over four years old now and the Ford one is four years out.

@vulpine

we'll know about "saturation" in just a few months.

If the upcoming Ranger doesn't smash all expectations RAM will be smarter to try a toe in the water before trying to slay the midsize dragon with too much complexity.

This is about making their dealers happy.

RAM dealers have lived without a midsize for a very long time and they don't want a new item in the catalog to hurt their full size sales in the process.

So when are we going to see that Mahindra pickup?

Don E, that is funny, I know of a Ford dealership that still has the Mihandra sign in the back room....

I think the mini-Ram will need to have IFS instead of a solid axle like the Jeeps to compete with the others. If they delay it long enough, like most due. They can drop in the new in-line turbo 6 with 8sp

I'd like to see a lifted TRX Off Road Rebel Dakota (4x4), a sport package (4x2) and a custom Dakota 4x4 (tradesman style) with only crew cab models.

Engine options I'd like are: 5.7 V8 Hemi, V6 and a EcoDiesel.

GUTS

GLORY

SOON TO BE CLASS LEADING

THE BEST ON THE MARKET

NEXT GENERATION RAM MID-SIZE

It will be interesting to see what RAM comes up with. I'm betting an e-Torque engine of some sort will fall into the engine bay.

A high performance 4x2 with a 5.7L Hemi would be really enticing!

Either way, i hope they make it look different than the new Ram. Not a fan of the Durango look!

"If the upcoming Ranger doesn't smash all expectations RAM will be smarter to try a toe in the water before trying to slay the midsize dragon with too much complexity."
--- I find it hard to believe the Ranger will smash ALL expectations; those expectations are pretty high already. That doesn't mean the RAM doesn't stand a chance, though.

"This is about making their dealers happy. RAM dealers have lived without a midsize for a very long time and they don't want a new item in the catalog to hurt their full size sales in the process."
--- This is a self-contradiction. You're saying they're doing it to make dealers happy, then turning right around and saying dealers don't want it. Which is it?

However, as I stated earlier, I could easily see the mid-sized trucks becoming the new half-ton model while current full-sized models get moved up at least one class. Already, the Class IIIs are doing Class IV work and only barely staying below Class IV weight. Only a year or two ago there was an uproar about how the 350/3500-series trucks were having to strip parts just to stay below that 8500# weight limit. And honestly, I have trouble trusting a truck that light to safely tow a 30,000# trailer.

@Vulpine. I'd love to see the midsize become the new half-ton model.
@Papajim. Keeping dealers happy. Maybe that's another reason why so many don't like Tesla, because doesn't fit the old model of dealerships.

Which brings up my latest observation. I was on the other side of the freeway from Tesla, running an errand, and peddled by the same Tesla parking lot full of cars. This time they had an umbrella out and some people with a desk and computers open at ~7pm. Come to find out it is where people pick up the cars. Supposedly 200 people a day are picking up their cars. A lady came down from Mendocino, CA, in her mid 60's, maybe touching 70. She was excited for her Model 3. She was still trying to justify the purchase from our conversation, and hoped it was her last purchase as we discussed her purchase. She looked excited. So clearly the battery car revolution is affecting the older demographic too. Us older folks want less vehicle headaches, and the far fewer moving parts for recalls are making me think that a Tesla truck (whenever it finally comes out) would be good for me.

@Angelo

Anecdotes about old ladies from the green-belt are fine, but please make some kind of connection to the topic of discussion---in this case, the RAM mid-sizer.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

I think there is plenty of room for more players in the mid-size market for three reasons...

1) Price.... similar spec trim packages can be 10k cheaper in a mid-size vs. a full size. Not everyone can afford or will chose to spend $45k+ on a new truck.

2) Size... Today's mid-size truck is about the physical size of the full size trucks of 15-20 years ago. They have plenty of cab room (especially crew cab versions) with respectable payload and towing numbers. Bigger isn't always better.

3) Practicality... Mid-size trucks have better fuel efficiency and are better suited to fit into garages and parking in tight urban centers. These factors are a huge plus for those of us living big cities. More people (especially young professionals) are moving into large cities and mid-size trucks are flat out more practical in an urban environment.

I'm a prime example... I live in Charlotte, NC (1.2 million in the metro area) and currently drive a 2002 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, purchased new. I have a three car garage, but even parking my '02 F-150 would be a tight fit (so it gets parked outside). I'll be shopping for a new MID-SIZE in about a year and a half from now (when my wife pays off her '16 Honda Pilot). Who knows what I'll end up with in 2020? I'm leaning toward the new Ranger but welcome all new players into the mid-size market. Competition only makes for better prices, products and selection for ALL consumers.

Glad to see will be produced in US.
Brian in NC is correct.
From a market place prospective there is room in the market. Likely to be eating Colorado market. No real imoacr to the GMC side very different buyer.

Just as a note, Angelo, the new Colorado is only about 200# away from half-ton status already. It wouldn't take much to give it that 200# of added strength. And the turbo-diesel 4-cylinder is capable of towing a 7500# trailer, which is what the 80s-90s-vintage half-tons pulled. The modern 10,000# is what the older ¾-ton trucks pulled.

With more midsized coming I predict a glut of full-sized trucks sitting on lots. This will happen if they don't alter production. I totally agree with Brian. In urban areas the biggest truck is not always suitable. They don't fit in many garages and crowded on street parking won't work all time. Many crowded parking garages are not great for full size trucks. Ram is late to the party but it was known they and Ford would be back.

"I totally agree with Brian. In urban areas the biggest truck is not always suitable. They don't fit in many garages and crowded on street parking won't work all time. Many crowded parking garages are not great for full size trucks."

Was just watching "Parking Wars" on TV and saw where public garages only have a 6'3" roofline clearance in Detroit... Snow country... 4x4 truck country... A modern full-sized 4x4 truck simply would not fit. Not even sure a stock Jeep Wrangler would fit.

With more midsized coming I predict a glut of full-sized trucks sitting on lots. This will happen if they don't alter production.

@2007Honda sedan shaped like a truck

That's some crystal ball you have!!!

THERE IS ALWAYS A GLUT of fullsize trucks at dealer lots. They sell a lot of trucks, and they sell them at high profits. What would you do?

The glut that's troubling the dealers is the glut of little sedans they can't seem to give away.

This RAM truck could very well be an electric truck in some way.
So Angelo's comment on electric trucks is always applicable.
The whole industry is right now building their whole line of vehicles to be electric in some way, so it is ALWASY appropriate to talk about it, and trying to restrict the conversation is both unaware and shows a very controlling personality.

"Diesel is one possibility. Hybrid is another. Hard to image a Hemi option, but it would sure make some waves."
Posted by: papajim | Sep 19, 2018 8:16:16 AM
Your kidding right. Class creating Chrysler was the only mid size truck with a v8. 360 Magnum. Not hard to imagine at all for folks who know Chrysler products.

2) Size... Today's mid-size truck is about the physical size of the full size trucks of 15-20 years ago. They have plenty of cab room (especially crew cab versions) with respectable payload and towing numbers. Bigger isn't always better.
Posted by: Brian in NC | Sep 19, 2018 1:59:57 PM

WRONG! when towing a heavy trailer BIGGER IS BETTER. (weight) Numbers on a piece of paper does NOT tell you the full story. How does the vehicle handle the weight.(control, sway etc..) My power wagon has a less towing # than some 19 Ram 1500's but i can guarantee you it feels a lot more confident towing the same weight.

You can't deny physics and the heavier larger vehicle will always be safer in a crash. Already been proven. Down side parking and gas milage.

This is about making their dealers happy.

RAM dealers have lived without a midsize for a very long time and they don't want a new item in the catalog to hurt their full size sales in the process.

Posted by: papajim | Sep 19, 2018 9:10:11 AM
——————————-

So which is moron? Make their dealers happy or dealers don’t want another vehicle to sell?

@Hemi V8

your point of view is appreciated.

Nobody likes a V8 option upgrade better than me. I'm just thinking about the space between the wheelwells. The current Hemi might be too wide.

@Robert

ZERO chance that RAM intros an electric drive train in a mid tier model like the Dakota.

IF/When FCA brings a full time electric package to the market it will be as an option in a volume seller like the Jeep Grand Cherokee or the RAM 1500

@brick

This is about making their dealers happy. That's the answer---not the question.

Write it 100 times on the blackboard.

@Papa jim: "This is about making their dealers happy. That's the answer---not the question."

You made two distinct statements earlier.

A) This is about making their dealers happy.
B) Dealers don't want to add another vehicle to their lineup.

Now. How does giving dealers another vehicle, make them happy?

Oh no more junk to the junkyards!!!!

We have enough with garbage motors truck and fiat is planning to bring more junk to the table this is pathetic, just like the girly gayme rampage with hers no guts, no glory , bend over, gayme rampage.

@Vulpine:

"This is about making their dealers happy. RAM dealers have lived without a midsize for a very long time and they don't want a new item in the catalog to hurt their full size sales in the process."

What is inconsistent about the above statement?

RAM followed the same strategy as Ford regarding midsize pickups. They were concerned about cannibalizing sales of their larger (and more profitable) full size pickups.

After witnessing the success that Toyota and GM have with smaller trucks RAM and Ford both revisited the discussion a few years ago.

Ford happened to have a global T6 platform that gave them an edge (on RAM) in getting a smaller truck into dealer showrooms. RAM did not.

In this entire process they were very sensitive to any input they get from their U.S. dealers because FCA had them up to their ears in small coupes and sedans that weren't selling. The last thing their late CEO and his team wanted was a fight with the car dealers over product allocation.

Thus my comment. Does that answer the question?

@@Robert,

"zero chance"?

There is a significant chance a Dekota and Scrambler will have the 4 cylinder hybrid motor found in the Jeep, and the v6 e-torque.

And you are certainly a personality that enjoys controlling others, rather than controlling the message according to truth.

Evidence:
1. I never said anything like "a full time electric package". I said "electric in some way".
2. Angelo also spoke of trucks and electrification and midsizers etc. Hardly a comment requiring a control master.

You are an emotional fuzzy thinker that wants to control people for some reason.

"This is about making their dealers happy. RAM dealers have lived without a midsize for a very long time and they don't want a new item in the catalog to hurt their full size sales in the process."

You really don't see the contradiction in those two statements?

How does, "and they don't want a new item in the catalog to hurt their full size sales in the process." not contradict "This is about making their dealers happy."

If they're adding a mid-sized truck to the catalog, you're stating, "they're going to hurt full-size sales in the process." Your own words, in black and white, contradict each other.

@Vulpine--papajim appears to be confused you either make the dealers happy by offering a midsize offering and you make them unhappy by offering another vehicle to sell. Fortunately for most Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Ram dealers they do not offer a lot of models in each brand category. Chrysler has 2 product lines, Dodge offers maybe 3, Jeep offers about 4, and Ram offers on pickup in half ton, 3/4 ton, and 1 ton and about 2 vans If trucks are selling then it doesn't appear one truck in 3 different weight categories is a lot. I would think that many dealers would be happy to get a midsize Ram.

@Vulpine

Their dealers don't all speak with the same voice.

Just like Congress has Republicans and Democrats, RAM has dealers that disagree about topics like product allocation.

Please understand that RAM's dealers (and their happiness) are paramount in the discussions that FCA has internally.

@Papa Jim: I think you need to re-word your statements to say what you mean. The dealers DO want a mid-sized truck, BUT they don't want it to be something that will eat into their full-size sales.

Now, assuming this is what you mean, then Ram's choice is going to be a critical one. Do they build a mid-sized truck similar in size to the current crop of GM/Toyota models? Or do they downsize to Frontier or even to the previous Dakota model that is small enough to meet light duty needs without encroaching on full-sized capabilities. After all, the '19 Colorado is only 200# shy of being a half-ton truck.

I've learned a little about dealerships from this blog, and now can FULLY appreciate why Tesla's model has been one of direct sales. Surely feathers have been ruffled.

With respect to comments: "Hard to image a Hemi option" implying someone was really thinking about if it could "fit between the wheel wells." A good save some face comment.

My next comment is a bit off topic, but Ford had a 3rd party fit the BOSS 429 between the wells in a 1969 Mach 1, and boy was that a sweet result. So a light truck with a ton of power could REALLY turns some heads! The new Dakota design group, if given a clean sheet, has the V8 Magnum history to reflect upon.

@Robert

ZERO. CHANCE.

Shall I spell it for you?

If we were talking about an existing product line like RAM's profitable fullsize trucks or their excellent SUVs then it might be easier for your small brain to comprehend the why-what-and-wherefore.

They are already taking a chance on the midsize being unsuccessful. They have no interest in adding any more risk to the equation. I don't care if you appreciate my perspective on this or not, but at least consider yourself schooled.

Class dismissed.

The FAKE Jeff S returns.

Angelo, I repeat. Not every story is about electric cars.

You live near the old Fremont plant. We get it. Today's discussion does not involve Tesla in any way at all. Please.

@papajim,

Then if Ram offers their existing 4 cylinder hybrid engine found in the Jeep or their v6 e-torque as an option in their scramber/dekota will you promise to never again comment on this site again?
You are so sure, then you should promise.
And also promise to apologize to Angelo, who adds to the conversation, rather than crowds it with hopes of controlling everyone.

@papajim,

But you won't promise, because you know their is a far better chance than "ZERO" their midsize will have some sort of electrification--just like all vehicles will be going electrified in some way.

@Robert

"...will you promise to never again comment on this site again?"

After a long bit of cold weather i'll bet it is finally warming up a bit in Australia.

Should be almost time for slaughtering a few dozen lambs, eh? A half dozen tiny lambchops and a half dozen cold lagers---what a great menu for a late lunch!

Sorry but I won't entertain your fantasy about me and my future posts on PUTC.

Shame, really. I'd have guessed you enjoy a little friction now and then. It's your type.

@papajim ,

It was clearly not a fantasy, but a test to see if you are a sincere commenter who is committed to truth rather than darker motives.

If you could see clearly through your pride filled eyes, you would have noticed that.

You are all about feeling above others and controlling them, with little regard for getting down to the truth of the matter.

Otherwise, you certainly would promise to apologize to Angelo and never comment again when RAM puts an electrified motor of some sort in their midsized pickup.

Did you debate with me for the purpose of making a deceptive representation?

Sounds like it. You have called it a "test" but I call it a lie.

You seem to do it rather casually, Robert. It reminds me of a fellow who formerly posted on this site's Comments section. His own pathology bears a stark similarity to your own.

Very stark. As a result he was treated mercilessly by his fellow commenters, so much so that he began posting under other names, to avoid the intense pain he felt whenever he read some of the really bitter reactions to his comments.

I could tell it was very painful for him.

So much so that it really brought out some of his worst pathological impulses and reactions. I think he favored lambchops and lager almost as much as you do.

PapaJoke your superiority complex shows factual inferiorities

PapaJoke your superiority complex shows factual inferiorities

the evidences here are clear to everyone.

1. I never said anything like "a full time electric package". I said "electric in some way".
2. Angelo also spoke of trucks and electrification and midsizers etc. Hardly a comment requiring a control master.
3. You won't stand by what you say, so you don't even believe what you say.
4. Then you leave all these topics at hand(because you know you are wrong), and just get personal without going back to bolster or clarify any kind of substantial evidence about the initial topic. You even go off about some unrelated past commenter so you don't have to face the topic at hand. That is, electrification of the RAM midsize.

Quite the distraction artist. You really don't want to face your own comments.

And staying on topic was you reason for trying to control Angelo.
Wow, those pride filled eyes really make one self blind.

Sorry folks, the discussion of an Ohio plant that will have a Dakota in 2020 has bored me, so I try to share things from my little part of the world.

A company parking lot near the 1001 apartments coming up near Tesla, I found from a truck driver dropping off the Model 3's, is a storage yard for until they go to the customer pickup site across the 880 freeway. Then he said there are other customer pickup spots: one in Palo Alto (Tesla's original design center-which I interviewed at as an EE in ~2009), and Rockville very near Sacramento.

Off topic: a LIDAR autonomous video
https://www.opsys-tech.com/lidar